Care homes, assets and grasping relatives

[Quicknamechange2015]

(Namechanged for this)

A friend of mine has found themselves watching a family drama unfold.. Thanks to the collective wisdom of MN, they have been able to make a lot of sense of what had happened to them in their life. Hence this question.

They (and their partner) cut all contact with their mother over 10 years ago. As have all but one of their 5 siblings, (which is an indication of the character of the mother)

The remaining sibling and their partner have hung around the mother for reasons we cannot fathom (well we can ...).

Now said mother has had the inevitable fall and has already spent 2 months in hospital as they won't discharge here to her own home as it's not equipped for someone in her state.

All of this has been relayed by my friends son who has tried to keep a relationship with their Nan. However they have now commented they can see exactly what sort of person she was and are disgusted with her and (to them) the grasping aunt.

Anyway, the mother here owns a large house (we won't dwell on where the money came from, but it wasn't legitimate). They also have a long term partner, over 80 (no marriage) who currently lives in the house.

I have become involved because said friends lad was approached by grasping aunt and told they may have to return a hundred pounds that was an Xmas gift, which worried and upset them. I suggested they quoted Arkell v. Pressdram and then cut all contact. Which seems to have been done.

However I find myself wondering quite what hope grasping aunt (and their equally rapacious partner) might have of getting their hands on the lovely lolly if her mother needs to go into a care home. Which apparently the hospital staff have started to discuss ? I am aware that local authorities (especially bankrupt ones :) ) have the power to seize and sell assets to fund care.

Just to finish, none of the 5 currently estranged siblings has any thoughts of receiving anything (curiously they all feel that when the sad day comes the cupboard will be bare). The eldest has been NC for 47 years.

I could have probably framed my question in a sentence. But the whole backstory is there in case I need to ask further advice on dealing with people like this that is less legal and more emotional.

Social services will go through her finances and decide what she needs to pay. Not sure what happens about the elderly person living in the property though. There might be safeguarding issues there if the aunt is trying to get hands on the money.
I would avoid getting dragged in if possible. These things are always very stressful and time consuming.

I'm sure you're right that the Xmas gift is fine and probably fits into a pattern of giving, which is acceptable from a deprivation of assets point of view.

They won't need to sell the house whilst her partner is still living there.
My dad was in a similar situation and could not, like this lady return home for medical ( not social care reasons) and in this case the NHS would pay 100% for several months care.
At the end if the day it is the lady's own decision ( particularly if se has caoacity).
A stair lift and other adaptation plus 4 visits a day might suit her better

The 100 pound gifts won't need to get returned
The hospital will assess her financially to see what she needs to pay for, either back at home after assessments or in a carehome if nan has capacity she can live where she likes. She might get discharged with a reablement package or to rehab
Has anyone got power of attorney or access to her money, has she made a will
Some carehomes offer a deferred payment scheme if they need to sell the house
The 80 yo partner may have rights to stay
What does nan want to do
How would aunt get money from her

If the elderly partner remains living in the property then the local authority won't touch the property but will look at any cash savings she has to fund her care.

If the elderly partner moves out of the property or dies first then the local authority will ask for the house to be sold to pay for care.

If she tries to dispose of the asset or savings in any way to avoid paying care fees the local authority will find it.

If you are not family, I suggest you don’t get involved. If someone has assets they will have to pay for care. An elderly person living in the house doesn’t necessarily have a right to stay there. They are not married. If one child has stayed around, too bad if their long term gain is money, it’s still nothing you can get involved with.

I would say if they’re estranged and don’t want anything from the estate when she dies then just keep out of it. They can’t make him return a £100 gift and the legal fees to try would be more than it was worth so don’t worry about that.

Not a lawyer, but have law degree and dealt with all matters re elderly relatives, care fees and Wills, intestacy.

1. persons who need care cannot dispose of assets to avoid care fees, that is what the aunt is referring to. But a £100 gift to a grandchild would not be deemed a disposal so your friend can forget about that.
2. from what you say there is one sibling “hanging around” or involved with his poorly mother so it is likely that NHS will liaise with him and the aunt
3. Social services will be involved in the discharge from hospital and the decisions as how she will be cared for taking the woman’s views into account. And will either be care at home, or a care home depending on her assessed needs and her realistic wants.
4. Social services may have to secure a guardianship order in the court of protection in order to manage her affairs should she lack capacity. They will look for deputyship for someone close to her to manage her finances but that is heavily monitored. Requiring annual accounts and receipts for every purchase. They may or may not determine there is nobody suitable and seek that the local authority take responsibility. There is a department for that.
5. Councils do not seize peoples assets. What happens is if there is a lack of funds or they use all available financial assets to pay for any care costs then they will defer payment and put a charge on the house. So when she dies and her estate is distributed they get their money back from her estate. Often there is nothing left in the estate for any beneficiaries.
6. The Aunt and sibling will be grabbing at thin air unless they are in her will and even then it would be only whatever is left after all debts are paid including care fees
7. If she dies without a will strict intestacy rules apply. Her estate would go in equal shares to her children even if they are estranged. The Aunt would get nothing.
8. as no info re elderly partner have ignored that, but if he has been at her home for some time then the council cannot move to sell the house.

Hope that helps