Long - Is small claims worth it? Garage refusing right to reject, malicious counterclaim

[lb640]

I've written this with loads more detail but will summarize main points as much as I can so its not a huge essay....!

In summary:
I’m stuck on what to do next regarding being misold a car that has basically been written off due to amount of faults. The garage are refusing a refund/final rejection.

To make things more complicated the garage is falsely claiming I’ve damaged their courtesy car and is threatening to use that against me. Unsure if they could win, but probably? I 100% did not damage the car but its just my word unfortunately (details below).

I would like to know thoughts on if it is worth going to court (I’ve listed my worries below) for small claims, even if just for damages.

Otherwise I think my only other option is to dump the car on We Buy Any Car or something and use what little savings I have left to buy a cheap run around for meantime.

Timeline:
28/7/2023 – Bought the car for £4990 it was described as excellent. They stated on their adverts and website that every car is thoroughly checked by qualified technicians before sale.

Note as this is used against me later – driving is a major part of my job and I do a lot of miles, hence wanting a low mileage car.

On the test drive there was a squeaking noise which I and my friend both immediately asked about but the garage owner and mechanic insisted it was “wheel dust” as the car was hardly ever driven, as shown by mileage. And it would soon disappear. (These guys since problems started, are saying I never said anything on the test drive and was entirely happy).

29/7/2023 to 31/08/2023
After buying the car, it became apparent within two weeks that the tracking was badly off, car was crabbing and got worse. Air conditioning didn’t work.

Mid August the bumper also half fell off on the motorway, dragging along the road.

Also I had booked it in with my local, trusted regular garage to have it checked after buying. They found more faults totalling hundreds of pounds, including:

The nearside track rod end nut was loose and could move by hand
Tracking very badly off on every wheel.
“Rear toe non adjustable – previous rear end impact?”

31/08/2023
The Garage I bought car from first fobbed me off until the warranty period had passed.

Then upon that, they tried arguing with me about repairing or paying for repairs
Managed to make them very reluctantly accept to attempt repairs after Citizens Advice told me what to say to him (car not as described/satisfactory etc, Consumer Rights Act and so on) and its best to let them have a chance of putting the vehicle right.

They also claimed my local garage are cowboys making up lies to get work. So Citizens Advice told me to get two other garage assessments on the issues raised, which I did, which they still scoffed at.

I wanted them to pay for a hire car (I’m self employed so I rely on a car or no work for me) but they absolutely insisted on dropping me a courtesy car which I eventually agreed to (kicking myself now, this is where they got me!)

05/09/2023 to 08/9/2023
Garage finally made it to collect car where they did repairs of issues noted.

However, they didn’t fix tracking properly. As advised by citizens advice I had their repairs assessed and all three garages noted tracking still off.
I paid for tracking to be done again myself for £70 two weeks later.

Later on (details below) in October, Toyota Garage after a vehicle healthcheck, verbally told me their repairs were “mostly sloppy and rushed”

The staff member who dropped car back and collected was complaining they had to order genuine parts, "otherwise I’d moan". He was also late collecting and dropping off by hours so I missed jobs, and kept saying I didn’t know what I was doing/other garages are liars etc. This was all verbal though so I guess no proof?

Also 08/11/2023
The courtesy car issue – the garage dropped me a battered Citroen. The sheet of paper for the courtesy car they gave me was just a blank black and white print out, the reg was on it and the date. And I didn’t sign it. The diagram of the car showing any marks was blank.

The staff member on collecting it back came to my door, and immediately confronted me saying he had looked at the car and I “had crashed it all down one side” exact quote. He phoned the garage owner to tell him this.

When I obviously totally denied this and asked to see where this so-called big crash damage was, it ended up being a light 2cm scratch on a bit of paintwork at the back.

At this point staff member said (verbal not recorded unfortunately so he is denying it) that the previous knocks and scrapes and a large dent were not recorded on the form but they were “old” so they “couldn’t say that was me”. But he insisted I’ve crashed it.

They said if I bother them again they would claim against me for this vague, extensive damage I did! Totally false claim!

I know timestamps can be edited so I’m concerned they will just take photos of the battered car and claim those were me after all, if it comes to it.

I stupidly only took two poor photos of the courtesy car when I got it, but it was dark and doesn’t show detail or whole car, so pretty useless. I have lots of clearer, quality pics of the scratch and around the rest of the battered car afterwards (as the staff member was making those claims on collection though).

30/10/2023
The side indicator lights both started to fall out, loose

15/11/2023
Car making dodgy noises and electric key failed. Local garage said to go to Toyota garage as key would need to be from them.

They did a health check for the dodgy noises while I was there, and found:

Tracking is badly out again

Brake fluid test failed (and three of the things on the wheels are frozen solid so would break and cost lots if they tried to remove them to replace brake fluid, they could only work on one that they could remove – apologies I’m not a mechanic but hope this makes sense).

Auxiliary belt and links worn need replacing/work

Wishbone brushes are badly deteriorated/failing
Brake pads need replacing

As mentioned due to my work, I drive a lot. I had done 8000 miles roughly at this point. However, I’ve heard the wishbone parts fail at 40 to 60k miles so surely that part isn’t caused by me and my mileage? Not sure about the rest to be honest.

I haven’t paid for an engineers report for more detail yet as waiting to see if worth the cost.

Response:
In garage’s response, they are focusing on blaming me due to my mileage and not driving carefully, age of the car. Skirted over the major issues.

Also my tyre was sliced by a vandal that morning so Toyota had to note and change it for me (joys of my neighbourhood, spate of car attacks that month) but they’re saying a cut tyre shows proof I don’t take care of my car. Ditto as a level of something was getting low.

They refused right to reject, and said if I start court they will strongly defend themselves and counterclaim for damage to their courtesy car (yeah, that threat has reappeared).

They still state that none of the paperwork, invoices and garage reports and even a video from Toyota hold up as sufficient evidence.

If I go to court for refund (and also damages too)?
I have a couple of friends who have had legal issues before and one warned me even if I win:

1. They can reduce my refund by 25p a mile. So I may only end up with something like £2k for the car anyway?
2. They can just end their company (limited) and refuse to pay and that’ll be stress chasing them, or may not be paid at all. Plus I would have my court costs on top of a rubbish refund?

So she thinks I shouldn’t bother, especially if they can win their counterclaim for the courtesy car.

Other friend thinks it’s worth looking into. Other reviews have said similar to me (dodgy, faulty cars) but the garage seems to have these removed quite quickly. And he thinks they’re trying to intimidate me.

Thanks for reading, sorry for length!

Your refund can be reduced by a reasonable amount to reflect the use you have made of the car. There is no fixed amount per mile. It is up to the court, but I would be surprised if they were allowed to deduct more than half the price of the car for mileage.

Yes, they could shut down their company. However, if they wish to carry on trading, they will have to pay a fair price for the company's assets (stock, premises, etc.). That money will then be available to pay the current company's debts, including you.

Given that you appear to have evidence of some pretty dodgy behaviour by them, I doubt that they would get anywhere with their counterclaim.

I agree with your friend that they are trying to intimidate you. Don't let them succeed.

Given all of the above I would still take them to court, they are relying on their behaviour and threat of a counter claim to put you off. It is good that you have everything documented because that helps your claim.

I successfully returned a 2 year old car last year but I made sure the fault on the test drive was on the paperwork. I also had the AA do an independent report before I bought it (£200 for all the checks) so I had evidence of a professional report, they too noted the fault. The reason I did the above is because my first car had issues despite the 112 point lying arseholes check they aparently did for all cars. My AA check was done after I collected it, they upgraded the car in return for my silence. Being young I accepted the newer car and I should have reported them to Trading Standards.

Fight it. I would. It was a fight to get my money back from the latest one, they delayed, someone has to sign it off etc, it sat in their garage and I refused to drive the courtesy car the second I was rejecting the car. Due to all the faffing about I owned it for about 6 weeks, I wonder what story they will spin to sell it on.

I bought a Fiat from a local garage, told excellent condition. Told them it had to be reliable as I lived rurally and had to transport my gs to school. First day, I tried to start the car and nothing happened with the ignition. Fine next day then on school run it took me five goes to start it. I rang the garage and they told me to return it.

They left me walking round in the cold for 2 hours, no offer of a coffee or lift home. When I drove off and returned home, it did not start again. They then told me it would have to go to a main dealership and that they did not do courtesy cars so I would be without a car for a few weeks after paying 6k.

Decided no chance. I told them I was rejecting it and when I arrived they actually had a car there and tried to force me into it! I went into the office and told them I would be sat there until they gave me my money back. The owner shouted and screamed in my face but I did not move. I did get my money back but what an experience.

My gs has had his car six months from a NW garage when the gearbox failed. But yes, it was all his fault for his driving style and mileage (sound familiar) and driving with the fault on it. But he had bought a cheap runaround whilst waiting for the work to be done so he was not driving it! This time I will be leaving a review alongside my gs but I don't think we have much chance of any money back. A local garage repaired it for us. A bearing fault caused the gearbox issues.

Sorry just my experience rather than advice op. They are trying to bully and intimidate you and get you to give up.

Sorry op but my honest opinion is this isn't worth pursuing any further.

You bought a car for under £5k. It developed faults, as diagnosed by another garage, and they (eventually) fixed them.

Your only immediate issue was then diagnosed by other garages as the tracking still not being fixed, for which you paid £70 in September.

The other problems have begun occurring from end of October onwards and could be explained by driving 8000 miles in a matter of 3 months or so - you're working the car hard. Parts are wearing.

I am not a fan of second hand car sales AT ALL, I've been had before - and this garage sound like arseholes. But I don't think for one minute that court action would result in a good outcome for you. You'd be throwing good money after bad.

Brake fluid test failed (and three of the things on the wheels are frozen solid so would break and cost lots if they tried to remove them to replace brake fluid, they could only work on one that they could remove – apologies I’m not a mechanic but hope this makes sense)

Also just wanted to mention this - do you mean the wheel nuts wouldn't loosen so the wheel itself couldn't come off x 3? And your garage just threw their hands in the air and that was that?

If this is the case, your garage is crap and I'd be very wary of them in general or in accepting their opinions on other works done. Don't fall into the trap of thinking a big name garage is reputable because of the name - there are some really, really shit ones out there.

I have had a LOT of really old, really shit cars in my time. I've experienced many situations where wheel removal was an issue due to corroded or locked nuts without the correct key for the car. But the garage ALWAYS got them off in the end (after cursing, using hammers and chisels, all manner of tools and liquids and the strength of many big burly blokes hammering the damn things). But it shouldn't really be beyond any reasonable garage to remove a wheel - I mean, how are you supposed to ever replace the tyres?

Apologies if I misunderstood that bit but sounded like a wheel removal issue to me which really shouldn't have been insurmountable.

As OP has not yet owned the car for 6 months, the presumption is that any problems were present when she bought the car. It is up to the garage to prove that the problems were due to wear and tear or OP's driving style if they want to argue that. Given the nature of the problems and that some of them started shortly after OP purchased the car, I think they would struggle to convince the court. Their behaviour throughout suggests they are not particularly trustworthy. I therefore disagree with @SeattleSpacePlane - based on the information posted, I think OP has a reasonable case and should pursue it.

This is terrible advice. No court will take into account faults which only appeared 4 months after purchase and after driving 8000 miles.

Forget the courtesy car issues. Unless they can provide evidence of the state of the car before and after then this will be thrown out. This is why hire car companies either take photos or get you to sign a form showing all date before you rent it.

The garage has provided shitty customer service but that is not illegal. At the end of the day the garage has eventually fixed all the faults the car came with aside from the £70 tracking. Move on and cut your losses.

Yeah your biggest mistake here was driving it. I get it, you need a vehicle for work and you'd just spent £5k on buying it. However I would've parked it and not touched it except when relevant to the claim ie inspections etc. Then bought a cheap banger to tide me over.
Putting 8,000 miles on it shows that the vehicle is somewhat road worthy!

I have had my brand new vehicle for 11 months now and only recently hit 3,000 miles. Even that has had a couple of minor issues during that time (including a new DPF which apparently cost the manufacturer a LOT of money!) and it's a brand new car! My point is, whilst I agree they're massive cowboys who undoubtedly sold you a duff vehicle with a huge number of faults, you've shot yourself in the foot dragging it along to 8,000 miles. That makes it look like the car was roadworthy and simply struggling due to heavy mileage (which yes, we know that's not the case but the courts need to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt). 8,000 miles hinders that somewhat. It also negates the 'Not fit for purpose' claim as well.

I’ve just been through the small claims court, I won, but wouldn’t recommend it unless you have an airtight case and really need the money. The judge outright dismissed any claims that had even a hint of ambiguity about them.
I’ve read lots of comments from people on MN saying small claims is simple but I suspect in most of those cases the other party didn’t respond or show up and they got a default judgement. It sounds like this garage are unlikely to do that and I’d say the fact you put so many miles on the car weakens your claim.
We had solicitors and a barrister on our side but the process was still very stressful . Ours dragged on for 8 months and involved additional hearings when the other party kept messing up the process. The final hearing was in an office rather than court but the process was like a full blown hearing where the parties were expected to cross examine the other side. I’m used to high-stress situations at work where I have to attend meetings similar to hearings but I still found it very intimidating and wouldn’t willingly do it again.

@Tsc2011 I have been to the small claims court twice. The main work for me was preparing the bundle which perhaps might have been a little OTT for what is expected but made presenting my case easy. I found the whole process pretty straightforward and both cases defended.

In one case the judge was pretty scathing about the defendant which was nice to sit and listen to

I have started a third case with someone who crashed into me and then tried to claim knock for knock. I issued the letter before claim and then had their insurance company demand I only deal with the company and not the defendant....which I ignored. They soon capitulated and settled the case in full.

The key is being organised, keeping emails and writing all correspondence with having in mind who might be eventually reading them

This is terrible advice. Every court will take into account faults that appeared 4 months after purchase. That is the law. Consumer Rights Act 2015 - "goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day". That is a rebuttable presumption, so the garage can try to argue that it is normal wear and tear. They may be able to persuade the court for some of the items such as worn brake pads, but some of the items on OP's list of failures appear to go well beyond normal wear and tear.

Yes, tyres managed to be replaced so thats okay at least!
Im not sure what I mean with technical terms..., the mechanic just said they didn't want to risk breaking the wheel bits to get the brake fluid in, and then I would have to pay for that on top also!

Yeah, to be honest I've lost my faith in about 90% of garages/mechanics! Nightmare.

Thanks everyone, really helped reading different comments

My law clinic who wrote the rejection request on my behalf in first place say their supervisor wants to try a second letter. Maybe worth a try, possibly...! Wont hold my breath though!

Also I've been told it may be worth asking my home insurance (legal cover) if they think there is a good percentage of success if I did take it further. I'll certainly check that out but keeping an open mind I may not win.

In meantime if I can get a decent price at We Buy Any Car I'll likely just cut my losses. Going to make an appointment to find out.

I only got the new car after a bad crash which left me with bad injuries and no money....and life and work is so stressful as well, I'm not keen on facing a long drawn out stress fest of court if its not airtight.

I just hope it's a matter of time until a future customer they rip off can serve up some karmatic justice in the end!