Power of attorney- mentally ill family member

[Resisterance]

My sibling has been seriously mentally ill (not formally diagnosed but some form of schizo affective disorder) for many years and lives with our parents. He doesn't leave the house or we anyone. He doesn't exist anywhere and there is no record of him ( I.e. no benefits etc) because he thinks he's being followed by an enemy country. He isn't.

As my parents are getting older and rent rather than own, I worry about the implications of my siblings' care and support when they're gone. I have asked them to set up an account or some kind of provision for him for this reason but they've just told me ( after years of asking) that they haven't got round to it. In part because they're still in denial about how acute the situation is.

I really think we need something in place to pay into so we can support him in the future. But you can't open an account for someone without their permission. And he wouldn't give permission because of the enemy country thing ... he thinks ' they' would find him.

My parents don't have much money and I'm not in a much better situation (single mum) so there's really no lump sum to give him when they go. So what would be best is an account could pay into monthly to build something up for him. Is there any way to do this?

World we need power of attorney to do so? How can we get this without him wanting to sign anything? What do people do when complex mental health issues are involved? He would fail the mental capacity act so could he be said to give consent anyway?

I've spoken to mind charity but they say there's not much they could suggest. I would really like to find a way to build some safety net for him into the future.

When my parents pass away he won't have any money or anywhere to live so it's concerning me how I would manage to support him as a result.

If he won't engage then you need to look after yourself, tell your parents you will not be taking on this responsibility so they need a plan in place or he will end up on the streets,maybe he would benefit from therapy if he refuses medication. The paranoia can't be nice for him and he could be in a constant state of anxiety. How old is he. You said before that he is unknown but he will have a birth certificate, medical card, school records, be on the electoral register.

He has a history of drinking, fighting and paranoia so anything could tip him over, he does need help for his and everyone else's sake, your parents really haven't helped but that's not helpful I guess.

If your parents will expect you to look after your brother once they are too old or dead, you either need to say no or tell them that if you are to take over his care, a GP and Services need to be involved.

I'd suggest a GP and a referral to a Psychiatrist in the first instance

You'd need to speak to the GP first and organise a home visit

Paranoia is such a scary thing. I wonder why he thinks they are looking for him in particular?

Your parents are doing both you and your brother a disservice by burying their heads in the sand.
Your brother is a vulnerable adult, entitled to services and funding.
As your parents age the burden will fall to you. Contact adult social care in your local area for advice.

Why has this suddenly become acute? Why do you think he lacks capacity and who diagnosed him as having a serious mental illness and wouldn't get sectioned. It's a form of abuse to deny someone medical help and if he lacks capacity he needs someone to advocate for him.

With all due respect OP I don't understand your problem.

Your initial question was about opening a bank account 'for' him but why do you need to that? If it's you that will be helping him. Just save it in your own name and give it to him when needed.

The bigger issue is that none of your have any money. Not you, not your parents. Even if you manage to save enough to give him a lump sum maybe 20K what's he going to do with it? That won't even cover living expenses for a year. With no job he won't be able to buy a property.

That's why people are saying. You need to make him known to services.

Also if after your parents pass away he agrees to social care and applying for benefits he won't be able to access some benefits lile UC if he has savings of £16k+. So you actually may end up doing more harm than good!

This happened (sort of) to someone I know. He has MH problems and his dad let him live rent free in a property he owned while he was working. He never paid any rent. When his MH condition became really bad and he tried to access benefits, he could get anything other than JSA as he hadn't been paying rent. Handouts honestly do sometimes cause more harm than good imo

Your poor brother. It sounds like he has had long standing mental health issues, which your parents have tried to deal with in the way they felt was best at the time. It will now be very hard for him to move into anything resembling a normal life.

i know it’s hard to hear, OP, but it does not sound like any of you are in a position to deal with this as a private issue, kept within the family, any more. When your parents either die or agree to a point where they need care themselves, it won’t be sustainable.

the best thing you can do for your family now is to encourage them / him to start engaging with social services and mental health services. There is financial and other support available for people in your brothers situation but he needs to engage with them, or you on his behalf.

but think carefully about your own boundaries as well, and what you are prepared to do. You need to have this clear in your mind before your parents attempt to guilt trip you into taking their place.

I think you need to get in touch with the GP/adult social services and get someone into the house under any guise to observe his behaviour first of all.
How does he react if a tradesman has to go into the house. The professional might have to just be 'the man from the council who has to go into every room' but you have to get him seen by someone.
Ideally, I would see his future with you probably as Guardian appointed by the Court of Protection, and him living in a low-engagement supporting living scheme. Best to start prep for this as early as possible.
It's not just about when your parents are gone, also about when they are frail and may need looking after themselves either in the home or in a care setting.

Thanks all. Yes I agree it does need addressing outside of the family. It is frustrating that it's been kept hidden by them all and somehow normalised so that it makes it harder to address and for me to approach my parents about it.

My dad did ask if I would agree to look after him and I said that I couldn't take him in due to my own circumstances. I will approach them in the new year and talk to them about it but they are very resistant to exploring outside help due to feeling like they would be betraying him and also because they are quite private themselves.

It causes me no end of worry.

Of course it worries you. Maybe ring Mind and ask for their advice.

I think benefits and a diagnosis are critical at this stage

My dad did ask if I would agree to look after him and I said that I couldn't take him in due to my own circumstances

ah OP just knew this would be the case. This is the one area where you do have control. You need to repeat calmly & consistently that you can’t and won’t take on your brothers care. Do not let your parents guilt you into it.

I expect your parents believe that you say no now but if they were to pass away you would.

Would love to just have a normal family!

I think the good news there is that if your dad asked you that question, the issue of the future has at least been considered.

It gives you a way in. 'We talked about the fact that I can't care for db in the future. That makes me think it's a good time to make plans for when things need to change.'

Just keep saying no, he may well be happy living in supported housing, he needs help with his mental health and it can't be much fun feeling paranoid and persecuted all the time. He can wash, dress, cook himself but cannit manage paperwork, bills, shopping, finances and all that's available to him. Good luck.

All families are odd on some level.😀

If your brother had a diagnosis, a plan for the future and benefits, you'd feel a lot happier.

You would be able to visit him whenever you like but you'd know his care and finances would be sorted.

If money is tight for you and your parents then I think putting aside money for your brother would not be wise. Especially given that he doesn’t have mental capacity to manage finances. You would be taking money from your own children that he would either refuse to spend for fear of being traced, or he would spend on something entirely inappropriate.

Your only option is speaking to your GP and adult social services.

Your parents really have created a ticking time bomb but allowing this to continue without any proper intervention from the appropriate services.

I would try and get things sorted now, leaving it until your parents die will cause more problems and stress. It would be better if he got the help he needs now while your parents are still around.

Could anyone recommend how to approach a difficult conversation like this with my folks? Is there a fact sheet for this somehow?!

Surely he has missed out on decades of benefit psyments.
I don’t expect its possible to do back claims.
i would tell DPs you won’t be his carer even if you think it’s something you could do-to force them to get things sorted.

As those with mental health knowledge above have said there is probably medication to greatly improve his condition. It’s cruel on him and DPs to leave this unchanged.

I think you have to be blunt, there is no point soft soaping it. You could start by saying you were thinking back to the previous conversation you had with your dad about it, and emphasise that you will be unable to provide care for your brother, ensure they are in no doubt about that. Once they fully understand that it will hopefully prompt them to take some action.

Your brother should be assessed and treated. The first step would be to speak to their GP and ask the way forward, hopefully there would be a route to him being visited and assessed in his own home - would your brother accept that?

It's going to be a painful conversation. I would go in resolved that there must be some action, however small, ending the conversation with 'we'll think about it' is not acceptable.

Your parents sound very skilled at diverting this conversation so you are going to have to be determined and not put off by them being upset.

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/seeking-help-for-a-mental-health-problem/helping-someone-else-seek-help/

mum and dad, I have been thinking about db recently and he doesn't seem very happy with these bad feelings and he as no friends, never goes out and seems really isolated. I worry about what will happen to him, I won't be looking after him and it's time we sat down as a family to sort this out now before things get worse. I have been looking online and have found all sorts of helpful information, I know you don't want to involve the doctors but there is help available and he is getting worse. I am happy to call his doctor, or we can do this as a family but it needs to get sorted out now, if we don't then I think he will end up in hospital.