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Original poster

Fence/Boundary issue

42 replies

lovethyneighbor · 14/12/2023 11:47

I've name changed for this and posting on behalf of my mum.

Several years ago people moved in to the adjoining (attached) property and replaced the original fence in the back garden. The fence had become damaged on one or two panels by a wisteria plant in my mum's garden that had been there about 10 years. The fence is 5 or 6 panels in total. So the new neighbours replaced the fence themselves with little consultation about it but all fine. The wisteria died and was not replaced. Fast forward a few years and there's now a clematis growing next to the fence that needs supporting. Mum's gardener has attached a wire support to the mum's side of the fence for the clematis. The wire support does not protrude above the top of the fence so the neighbours can't actually see it. When the gardener was doing this the neighbour came out of the house and started shouting and being aggressive about it and was deeply unpleasant. They were reassured that the plant would not damage the fence because the support would mean it doesn't grow through the fence and the gardener would be maintaining it. The neighbour kept coming out ranting and raving saying mum and me had attitudes and accusing me of blanking her in the street and slamming the door despite the reassurances. Until that day I wouldn't have known her if I had passed her in the street anyway.

The following day the neighbour stopped at the top of mum's drive and glared down it making mum feel uncomfortable.

Today mum has had a letter through the door demanding the support be taken down and saying they don't give permission for a large plant to be be grown against the fence. It's a clematis, it's not a large plant. They have claimed they tried to be reasonable and discuss the matter but the incident the other day was the first we knew of any issues and they came out of the house shouting and being aggressive in that manner.

They have threatened legal action and my mum is really upset. She's disabled and elderly and now feeling very anxious and intimidated by the neighbours.

I haven't told her but they also have one of those blink type cameras pointing into her garden. All they'll see is washing being hung out so I've no idea what they have done that for.

Any advice much appreciated.

OP posts:
Original poster
lovethyneighbor · 14/12/2023 11:48

Mum is checking the deeds because she's not sure who is actually responsible for the fence but was just glad the neighbours had paid for it to be replaced all those years ago.

OP posts:
itsnotmeagain · 14/12/2023 11:54

I don't think it's legal to point a camera into someone else's private property so for a start you could ask them to remove the camera. Not sure re fence issue though sorry

EverythingLouderThanEverythingElse · 14/12/2023 11:54

If they've paid for the fence then they own it. Your mum cannot attach anything to it nor paint/ stain it without the permission of the owner.

Chugnut · 14/12/2023 11:59

You can't fix anything to a fence that you don't own without the owners permission. The camera is a completely different issue and I would ask if it to be redirected.

hedgehoglurker · 14/12/2023 12:11

Agree with pp. The fence belongs to the person who paid for it and their permission is required to attach anything to it. The responsibility for marking the boundary is separate to fence ownership, and may be detailed in the deeds.

Sorry, but your mum needs to remove the support, unless you can get the neighbour's permission for it to remain.

Frasers · 14/12/2023 12:12

You can’t attach something to someone else’s property without their permission. Remove it, as permission isn’t granted. And clemaris can get very large indeed.

Frasers · 14/12/2023 12:13

lovethyneighbor · 14/12/2023 11:48

Mum is checking the deeds because she's not sure who is actually responsible for the fence but was just glad the neighbours had paid for it to be replaced all those years ago.

It’s their fence if they replaced it. It is not your mother’s. She is not responsible for their property and as said she cannot simply use it any more than she can their drive or living room.

StarlightLime · 14/12/2023 12:14

You need to just remove it.
They appear to be being quite nasty about it, but they do have a point; they've replaced the fence once already after damage from your Mum's plants.

AnOldCynic · 14/12/2023 12:14

Get two timber fence posts put installed directly in front of the existing posts on your mums side, the same height as the fence. Put horizontal wires between the post at say 30cm spacings, ideally going through holes drilled through the posts and tensioned.

Grow the clematis up this trellis, nothing attached to neighbours fence and there's bugger all they can do about it.

Frasers · 14/12/2023 12:15

AnOldCynic · 14/12/2023 12:14

Get two timber fence posts put installed directly in front of the existing posts on your mums side, the same height as the fence. Put horizontal wires between the post at say 30cm spacings, ideally going through holes drilled through the posts and tensioned.

Grow the clematis up this trellis, nothing attached to neighbours fence and there's bugger all they can do about it.

This is fine, it’s basically another fence and in her land.

Frasers · 14/12/2023 12:21

StarlightLime · 14/12/2023 12:14

You need to just remove it.
They appear to be being quite nasty about it, but they do have a point; they've replaced the fence once already after damage from your Mum's plants.

Agree honestly op. They had to go to considerable expense as her wisteria damaged it, to catch her trying to do the same again with a clematis and without permission would infuriate most people.

if she wants climbers she can have them, but she needs to attach to something she owns, she cannot continue to use neighbours property and risk damage or actually damage, it’s not ok. Thats why they are royally pissed off.

Original poster
lovethyneighbor · 14/12/2023 12:22

Thank you everyone. I'm going to speak to the gardener about doing the inner fence section.
They will be asked to remove their camera.
They've been nothing but trouble since they moved in and erected a huge high decked area with great big fence round it that positioned them near the top of the fence. Mum has no privacy now even though the council made them lower it. Nasty people. Always having blazing rows effing and Jefffing at each other. It's such a quiet road of mainly elderly people who keep to themselves.

OP posts:
Frasers · 14/12/2023 12:26

lovethyneighbor · 14/12/2023 12:22

Thank you everyone. I'm going to speak to the gardener about doing the inner fence section.
They will be asked to remove their camera.
They've been nothing but trouble since they moved in and erected a huge high decked area with great big fence round it that positioned them near the top of the fence. Mum has no privacy now even though the council made them lower it. Nasty people. Always having blazing rows effing and Jefffing at each other. It's such a quiet road of mainly elderly people who keep to themselves.

Someone obvs reported them and if rhe council has been round then clearly what they have is compliant. The camera will be there to ensure no one tampers with their fence, they shouldn’t but I can see why, when your mum has her own fence then it won’t be necessary to have a camera.

aintnospringchicken · 14/12/2023 12:28

EverythingLouderThanEverythingElse · 14/12/2023 11:54

If they've paid for the fence then they own it. Your mum cannot attach anything to it nor paint/ stain it without the permission of the owner.

This

MrsKwazi · 14/12/2023 13:01

I also have a fence within a fence for my climbers as OldCynic describe. It actually works better as I know they won’t be disturbed when fences get replaced. Prev neighbours have really ruined my fences by attaching things to it.

Collaborate · 15/12/2023 10:40

The posters who say that the neighbours own the fence because they paid for it may be wrong. Certainly having paid for it does not mean they automatically own it. It depends on the status of the fence it replaced.

If the original fence was a jointly owned structure, straddling the boundary, and was replaced by the neighbour, then the new structure is also jointly owned.

the deeds may or may not give a clue as to ownership of the fence.

Original poster
lovethyneighbor · 15/12/2023 12:53

@Collaborate how would we go about finding out who owns the fence in relation to what you are saying? There has always been something growing on the fence before the neighbours moved in and there has never been an issue until this week. No mention of them having any problem with the killer clematis as it's now been dubbed.

OP posts:
Collaborate · 15/12/2023 13:10

For £3 you can get title docs online from the land registry. Google eservices land registry. You need the title register for each. For an additional £3 each property you can download the title plan. The deeds may contain evidence of any declaration of ownership of boundary structures.

Ours doesn't, but the original conveyance from the 1930s (which we have) states which walls are party walls, and has a detailed plan.

Original poster
lovethyneighbor · 15/12/2023 13:30

Great thank you. There's 2 entries for the address: one as a leasehold and one as a feeehold. Mum pays ground rent twice a year so which one do I need to order?

OP posts:
Collaborate · 15/12/2023 14:13

Leasehold. Chances are that both properties are leasehold. That's good, as you will be able to inspect both leases. There's a chance the lease will mention something about boundary ownership.

Collaborate · 15/12/2023 14:13

To inspect the lease you have to make a separate application so won't be able to view it immediately.

Original poster
lovethyneighbor · 17/12/2023 14:55

I've looked at the existing title and lease details that my mum has and all there is is a red line drawn round the plot of land. Nothing else at all. If I request the title deeds now will they be more detailed?

OP posts:
TeacherPlease · 17/12/2023 15:01

lovethyneighbor · 15/12/2023 12:53

@Collaborate how would we go about finding out who owns the fence in relation to what you are saying? There has always been something growing on the fence before the neighbours moved in and there has never been an issue until this week. No mention of them having any problem with the killer clematis as it's now been dubbed.

Whoever paid for the fence owns it. Sometimes one party is responsible for maintaining the boundary, but this doesn’t change who owns the fence.

We’ve fenced all three sides of our garden, even though we only need to maintain one boundary as I wanted matching fences and we span 4-5 neighbour gardens, and we have a dog so I needed to know it was secure. It’s my fence, no one can attach anything to it without my permission. They can erect their own fences if they choose, so long as it doesn’t tamper with my fence.

Your mum is in the wrong here.

rwalker · 17/12/2023 15:10

Deeds show boundaries not ownership of fence
I put mine up just inside the boundary by inches it’s 100% mine

tell your mum to stop being a twat her plant damaged the fence then next door replaced it
then she’s at it again attaching things to there fence
there better people than me I’d be out with shears there and then taking her plant off my fence

blacksax · 17/12/2023 15:15

rwalker · 17/12/2023 15:10

Deeds show boundaries not ownership of fence
I put mine up just inside the boundary by inches it’s 100% mine

tell your mum to stop being a twat her plant damaged the fence then next door replaced it
then she’s at it again attaching things to there fence
there better people than me I’d be out with shears there and then taking her plant off my fence

I'm glad you're not my neighbour.