Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

Divorce where only one party owns home

97 replies

Tearingmyhairout82 · 08/12/2023 15:39

DB bought a house in 2017 for him and SIL to live in. The house is in his name and he pays the mortgage. DB and SIL married in 2019 and separated in Jan 23. They have two DS, 9 and 5. SIL stays in the home currently and has a charge against the property. DB initially wanted her out and didn't see why he should have to give her anything, SIL wanted to stay in the house till DS2 turned 18. DB has now offered SIL 20% of the increased value of the home since it was purchased (about £20,000) and SIL is still adamant that she should live there till DS2 is 18 as she is self employed and doesn't think she will be able to buy a house in the area they currently live.

I suspect they are both being unreasonable. DB can't afford anything, buy or rent, while he is paying the mortgage on his house and I doubt SIL could buy on her own with only £20,000 for a deposit.

They have reached a stalemate. DB currently lives with me and my nephews stay 4 nights in 14. Its not sustainable and I am tearing my hair out as neither will come to compromise and there is no end in sight to my current living situation.

Looking for advice/opinions from other people who have been in either DB or SIL situation. What agreement did you come to? Any solicitors out there who can give me an idea of what DB needs to offer in order to break the stalemate without crippling himself?

OP posts:
RedHelenB · 09/12/2023 07:35

SheilaFentiman · 08/12/2023 16:54

Ah, OK. I know that anyone (creepily!) can registered to be told if a property changes hands, I didn't realise it was possible to register a right to live somewhere without consent of the LR owner.

Show quote history

It is if you're married.

SheilaFentiman · 09/12/2023 07:40

Flopsythebunny · 09/12/2023 07:32

I suggest that if you don't know what having a charge on a house means, you don't give any advice

Show quote history

I asked. And “having a charge on a house” can indeed mean that it has been used as security.

You are rather rude.

Luckydog7 · 09/12/2023 08:00

Surely with no pensions, the house being the only asset, she is currently the primary caregiver, has the lower income and a long relationship (10 years) she can expect more then 50%. 60/40 would hardly be unexpected in this case as she could argue he built his career while she held hers back having children.

It does sound like they are both being unreasonable but db is being more unrealistic of the two. She knows her position is the stronger one and the longer time goes on the longer she has to establish herself as primary caregiver and argue against 50/50 care. If she did majority of childcare prior to split this is going to strengthen her case.

He needs to get this sorted asap. His older child is 9 and will soon get a say in where he lives. Don't let things settle as they currently stand. Op you may need to be the catalyst here by asking dB to move out to force his hand and protect yourself from years if this. You also don't want to be housing him through the chaos of devorce as that will more then likely effect your family too. Stress etc.

PosiePerkinPootleFlump · 09/12/2023 08:46

They both need to give their heads a wobble.

They have been together at least 10 years and have 2 kids. This will be taken into account rather than just the 'short marriage' bit. So the house being in his name is a red herring. So his assumption he can keep most of 'his' equity means he is in dreamland. Her assumption she can stay there til the kids are 18 meaning he has nowhere to live at all is equally disillusioned.

I suspect of this went to court equity would end up at more like 50:50 so that both could be adequately housed (eg in a 2 bed flat) and accommodate their kids. That is the very best your brother is going to get - could well end up at 60:40 or 70:30 or something if he earns more and so can afford a higher mortgage.

The problem is that if both hold out for what they think they are owed, the only way to sort it is court. And that way they will both burn through a ton of the not-huge assets they have to share.

Agree that mediation might be a way forward to make both see that their expectations are way off

Outofmydepthnow · 09/12/2023 10:48

The 'name' on the house is completely irrelevant after a relationship and marriage of this length plus kids.

If he isn't adequately housed which he isn't then house sold and equity 50/50 OR he offers to buy her out if she can't buy him out.

TizerorFizz · 09/12/2023 10:55

The house will have to be sold and she needs to established she does majority of childcare. Which it appears she does. Dragging it into court is expensive. So why lose more money?

CombatBarbie · 09/12/2023 10:59

He needs to move back in. It's really that simple. As pp said short marriages tend to put each person back to their original point. He wouldn't be expected to move out and pay mortgage until youngest is 18, that's more for when the house is owned outright or the other person can afford it. In this case she can't.

Original poster
Tearingmyhairout82 · 09/12/2023 11:10

DB is not a piece of work and I don't think he wants his kids in an attempt to dodge CMS. He is currently paying a mortgage on a house he isn't living in and paying maintenance. The childcare pre divorce was a mish mash. He is 9-5 and she works a lot of evenings and weekends. They got by with some help from DM. DM still does school pick ups three days a week a DB will go over to hers after work to spend time with his children until SIL collects when she is finished.

She doesn't have a solicitor and has been obstructive in moving things forward. He moved himself out after the split on the assumption or possibly the agreement that she would take a couple of months to get herself sorted and find somewhere to rent. This was obviously naive/ignorant on his part. I have suggested he moves back in but she has threatened to call the police if he does and he is worried that if she does it will take time for police to investigate, he won't be able to contact her while this happens and it will drag on much longer.

I do see that I will need to force the issue of him moving out as it's not good for my family to have him here indefinitely.

I also see that she will be entitled to a chunk of the house equity. And she prob could house herself using that. Though she has under reported her earnings for years and am not sure if she has had the sense to declare properly now to help with a mortgage or carried on under reporting to maximise the amount of UC she can claim.

OP posts:
rwalker · 09/12/2023 11:12

Short marriage and 50/50
he’d be better selling house then they both have to look for somewhere to live wether that’s rented or buying
Take his initial deposit off and split the rest 50/50
you brother can’t pay a mortgage and rent somewhere whilst she lives rent free for 18 years

TizerorFizz · 09/12/2023 11:14

Why should his wife find somewhere to rent? You don’t quite understand that she’s got the dc. The house will have to be sold. It’s not going to be 100% his. He is coming across as not caring about his dc.

DidiAskYouThough · 09/12/2023 11:19

I imagine the ‘piece of work’ comment refers to the fact that your brother seems to think the marital asset is ‘his’ and he can choose to not share assets with his wife, and thought he could boot her out of the home.

Original poster
Tearingmyhairout82 · 09/12/2023 11:19

TizerorFizz · 09/12/2023 11:14

Why should his wife find somewhere to rent? You don’t quite understand that she’s got the dc. The house will have to be sold. It’s not going to be 100% his. He is coming across as not caring about his dc.

Why should his wife stay in the house while he pays the mortgage?

He is thinking of his DC, he wants to have a home for his DC to live in. They can't live in my spare room for the next 13 years.

Maybe she can buy, maybe not. I don't know. But I do know she can't afford to stay in that house without his financial support. And that she is trying very hard to stay in that house and have him pay.

OP posts:
Original poster
Tearingmyhairout82 · 09/12/2023 11:22

rwalker · 09/12/2023 11:12

Short marriage and 50/50
he’d be better selling house then they both have to look for somewhere to live wether that’s rented or buying
Take his initial deposit off and split the rest 50/50
you brother can’t pay a mortgage and rent somewhere whilst she lives rent free for 18 years

He can't sell the house as she has registered rights to it. So no one will buy the house while she has a right to live there and she won't currently engage in any kind of discussion that does not involve her being able to live in the house for the next 13 years.

I know he will need to give her more than he wants to. But I'm not even sure if 50/50 would be enough for her to agree to the sale. And I can see it ended up in court which will cost both £££ and leave so much less left to house the DCs.

OP posts:
SecondUsername4me · 09/12/2023 11:23

The house is a marital asset and will be treated as such.

If he is paying fully for the house then he needs to move back into it.

Once the divorce goes through they can walk away with their respective gains and sort rentals out.

TizerorFizz · 09/12/2023 11:23

@Tearingmyhairout82 Because he’s providing a home for his children! The couple need a divorce and financial settlement. They need to agree who is the resident parent. Loads of people cannot get divorced and keep the family home. He should not force her out and he doesn’t have the dc. So he needs to rent! But, the house needs to be sold and he could move back prior to that. Why does he want to disrupt his dc in this way? It’s not very pleasant.

thebear1 · 09/12/2023 11:29

Friend going through similar, basically their income is low so they are having to live under same roof until house is sold and financial agreement come to. Neither can really afford to stay in home without other and will struggle to live alone on low Income.

Youthinkyoureuniqueyourejustastatistic · 09/12/2023 11:30

I mean honestly they just need to be grown ups. He needs to move back in. Room each. And she’ll just have to go out to see boyfriend and not have him over.
If they can’t afford anything else separately they’ll just have to learn to be civil for the sake of the kids.
Until either of them can afford it or the kids grow up and move out. Whatever comes first.

SgtJuneAckland · 09/12/2023 11:45

It's a marital asset she's likely to get at least 50/50 more if she can evidence she was primary care giver and her career took a back seat in favour of his. So unless he can buy her out at that amount the house will need to be sold.

He needs to stop being ridiculous offering her 20k. Also who on earth buys a house for their family to live in but doesn't put their partner/wife on the deeds? Someone watching his own back rather than prioritising the best for his whole family. Would you feel like an equal partner if someone did that to you OP? That's why people are calling him a piece of work, it's very calculated to keep her arms length and all about HIS money, that was earned while they were in a 10 year partnership.

I paid for the deposit on our current home because I had a previous property and DH didn't. Until fairly recently I massively out earned him so was obviously contributing more to the mortgage, the amount I put into the joint amount easily covers the mortgage and then some. I also didn't need his income to get the current mortgage (he also works much as your SIL does). Guess what he's still on the deeds and mortgage because he's my husband and that's how grown up partnerships work.

Ju1ieAndrews · 09/12/2023 11:54

They both need to understand that nobody comes out of a divorce feeling like they've won financially.

A chunk of the combined finances will go to solicitors and courts etc and both of them are likely to end up with less than half of what they have now.

Your DB has been selfish suggesting that the family home is not for his family, when it was purchased specifically for the four of them to live in. He needs to recognise that they all need to benefit from the equity within it.

He can move back in, the police may be called, but they can't move him out, he owns the house and his ex also has a right to live there.

Yes it will be awkward, but it will certainly speed up the divorce proceedings. She can go to her boyfriend's house in the evenings and stay there instead of him staying in the family home.

But in short, they are both going to have to make sacrifices and the sooner they do it and with the least conflict, the cheaper it will be.

Isheabastard · 09/12/2023 12:16

I can see the terrible situation you are in.

How long has this been going on for, when did they first decide to split? Who wanted the split?

I know when I first instigated my divorce, my stbxh was very, very cross that I would be due 50/50 (very long marriage). He said a lot of things about what he was going to do, what he wanted, what he thought was fair (it wasn’t).

I was the one who used a solicitor from the get go. His demands got more reasonable once he’d seen a solicitor. Solicitors are very good at telling you the hard truth and making you see sense. Eventually things have to be signed off by a judge and they won’t sanction anything that seems too one sided.

You say your DB initially didn’t want her to have anything, she may still think that this is his attitude and she is just behaving in self protection. You say he has sent letters and she hasn’t replied. Do you know if she has even opened them?

So you (your DB), needs to find a way to break this impasse.

I think the most likely outcome will be the house needs to be sold and the profit is 50/50. Does your brother accept that his deposit is likely to be split as well? They were obviously together awhile before he bought the house.

If so, he needs to make sure his wife knows this. They probably need to do a reset in their hostility and suspicion of each other.

How to break the impasse? A letter or email, suggesting the above, a mutual friend to pass on the information, a meeting in a neutral place, with or without a neutral friend?

Perhaps she needs that talk with the solicitor? Sometimes you can get a free consult with a solicitor. If she won’t pay to see a solicitor, would someone else stump up the £250 so she can have an hour with one?

This may be enough to make her realise there is just not enough money for her to live there for the next 13 years.

It may be the best £250 your family has ever spent if it gets you to the next step.

My ex bombarded me with texts, letters and emails telling me how outrageous it was for me to have 50%. It was only once he’d calmed down and knew what the legal situation really was that we have been able to progress. Him getting a new live-in girlfriend has also helped.

My ex actually sent me an email and he wasn’t being ironic that if we split everything 50/50 - he wrote “you will be living a life of luxury, while I will be in penury”. What he meant was he wouldn’t be able to live his life of extravagance anymore, and I wouldnt have to continue living so frugally.

If your DB was anything like my ex, he may need to backtrack a bit, and his wife needs to know his views have changed.

If this is not the case then the wife is trying it on.

Enko · 09/12/2023 12:33

This thread is depressing with the level of female entitlement to the kids it shows. In many other countries men manage perfectly fine to have an active part of their children's lives post divorce
Why is the UK men seemingly incapable of this?

Op both SIL and your db are being unreasonable here.

DB needs to accept that he was in a long relationship with his x. They have a 9 year old. They both need adequate housing to look after their children.

He can't afford to pay for the mortgage and a adequate place for him and the boys to live. She can't afford to pay the mortgage. So her remaining in the house is not sustainable.

Can DN afford to pay her 50% of equity and take on the mortgage? If yes I would offer that. If no they have to sell the house and both find somewhere else to live.

Neither of then have an automatic right to keep the home.

I would encourage your brother to return to his solicitor start mediation and push for a court date. It is in SILs interest to not respond to this as she get what she wants by it (staying in the house with bil paying) so don't expect her to go forward.

Original poster
Tearingmyhairout82 · 09/12/2023 12:43

Isheabastard · 09/12/2023 12:16

I can see the terrible situation you are in.

How long has this been going on for, when did they first decide to split? Who wanted the split?

I know when I first instigated my divorce, my stbxh was very, very cross that I would be due 50/50 (very long marriage). He said a lot of things about what he was going to do, what he wanted, what he thought was fair (it wasn’t).

I was the one who used a solicitor from the get go. His demands got more reasonable once he’d seen a solicitor. Solicitors are very good at telling you the hard truth and making you see sense. Eventually things have to be signed off by a judge and they won’t sanction anything that seems too one sided.

You say your DB initially didn’t want her to have anything, she may still think that this is his attitude and she is just behaving in self protection. You say he has sent letters and she hasn’t replied. Do you know if she has even opened them?

So you (your DB), needs to find a way to break this impasse.

I think the most likely outcome will be the house needs to be sold and the profit is 50/50. Does your brother accept that his deposit is likely to be split as well? They were obviously together awhile before he bought the house.

If so, he needs to make sure his wife knows this. They probably need to do a reset in their hostility and suspicion of each other.

How to break the impasse? A letter or email, suggesting the above, a mutual friend to pass on the information, a meeting in a neutral place, with or without a neutral friend?

Perhaps she needs that talk with the solicitor? Sometimes you can get a free consult with a solicitor. If she won’t pay to see a solicitor, would someone else stump up the £250 so she can have an hour with one?

This may be enough to make her realise there is just not enough money for her to live there for the next 13 years.

It may be the best £250 your family has ever spent if it gets you to the next step.

My ex bombarded me with texts, letters and emails telling me how outrageous it was for me to have 50%. It was only once he’d calmed down and knew what the legal situation really was that we have been able to progress. Him getting a new live-in girlfriend has also helped.

My ex actually sent me an email and he wasn’t being ironic that if we split everything 50/50 - he wrote “you will be living a life of luxury, while I will be in penury”. What he meant was he wouldn’t be able to live his life of extravagance anymore, and I wouldnt have to continue living so frugally.

If your DB was anything like my ex, he may need to backtrack a bit, and his wife needs to know his views have changed.

If this is not the case then the wife is trying it on.

Thanks, that's really helpful. They have been split almost a year now. She instigated it but I think they were both unhappy for a long time (DS2 was possibly a much loved band aid baby), DB would have carried on unhappy and married as he is not the most proactive of people.

Good point ref the letters, I assume she has read them but it may well be after his initial shitty attitude she has decided to ignore assuming he hasn't budged. And yes perhaps seeing about getting her a session with a solicitor would help. I know it made DB understand he would have to give her something. I think part of the reason he didn't up his offer is he assumed she would start coming down and would start coming up and they would end up in the middle. She responded twice and both times stated she would be staying in the home till DS2 was 18 as it was there home and she couldn't afford to leave.

I do think much more would be achieved if I could get them in a room together.

OP posts:
Original poster
Tearingmyhairout82 · 09/12/2023 12:45

Enko · 09/12/2023 12:33

This thread is depressing with the level of female entitlement to the kids it shows. In many other countries men manage perfectly fine to have an active part of their children's lives post divorce
Why is the UK men seemingly incapable of this?

Op both SIL and your db are being unreasonable here.

DB needs to accept that he was in a long relationship with his x. They have a 9 year old. They both need adequate housing to look after their children.

He can't afford to pay for the mortgage and a adequate place for him and the boys to live. She can't afford to pay the mortgage. So her remaining in the house is not sustainable.

Can DN afford to pay her 50% of equity and take on the mortgage? If yes I would offer that. If no they have to sell the house and both find somewhere else to live.

Neither of then have an automatic right to keep the home.

I would encourage your brother to return to his solicitor start mediation and push for a court date. It is in SILs interest to not respond to this as she get what she wants by it (staying in the house with bil paying) so don't expect her to go forward.

Yeah that has been pissing me off too! He doesn't want to kick his kids out of there home, it's there home. There bedrooms etc. He just doesn't want their mum to be there indefinitely. He would like to live in the house with his children half of the time. He sees them Thursday to Monday every other week, and three evenings a week. He did ask if they could be here 50% of the time but I just couldn't accommodate that as they all share with my DC and four kids in one room is not fair on anyone.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 09/12/2023 12:55

He needs to accept that it will be 50:50 and initiate the mediation and start court proceedings.

I would recommend he writes to her neutrally explaining that the house will have to be sold in order for her to get her share as courts favour a clean break and he realises that the split is likely to be 50:50.

Would he consider moving back in and that she goes out to stay with her partner etc? A temporary nesting arrangement. He spends one weekend at yours and the other one she goes stay elsewhere?

GrumpyPanda · 09/12/2023 15:33

I have suggested he moves back in but she has threatened to call the police if he does and he is worried that if she does it will take time for police to investigate, he won't be able to contact her while this happens and it will drag on much longer.

There have been multiple threads on this site by women who tried just that and got laughed at by police, so this sounds like an empty threat. If he's really worried maybe he should call police proactively for advice.

The nesting suggestion by a pp sounds good - would give him a chance for equal time with the children - but from what you're writing most likely she'd sabotage that too.