Failing interim court order by consent, working around dads shifts

[standyourground1]

Hi, long story short, feb 2022 dad ended the relationship. Apr 22 he went back to being cabin crew long haul and told me to work around his rota that gives 2 weeks notice of his next months work rota, or he will take me to court for the kids full time. We have 3 kids aged between 5-11.

I of course applied for court as I work full time and this was too short notice to work around each month.

fast forward to April 2023 and we were at a final hearing. Dad suddenly arrives at court claiming they now only work part time 2 week on, 2 weeks off. Judges asks if we can discuss any arrangements as there is a new situations. We discussed dad having 2/3 days with the children in both his working two weeks when he is off. And I get a block of 3/4 days in dads not flying two weeks.

the judge said it can be trialled first and we agreed to trial for the kids. So we had an order by consent and all school holidays were alternating weeks.

after 3 months it was clear it wasn’t working. I work full time and my employer has stated in an email to the court that they can offer me flexitime to see the kids but this must be set days and they are not there to work around another employers fluctuating time table at such short notice. Dad is flying twice roughly in two weeks and away 3-5 days each time.

dad now wants to remove the alternating weeks for school holidays which is completely unreasonable as I will not be able to book annual leave for school holidays with 2/3 weeks notice.

This trial period has failed as I’m not able to plan events, activities, days out with the kids ahead of time as I could book them on the dads days off without knowing. So with my 14 days in my two weeks, all are unclear what are mine until 2 weeks notice is given of the next months rota.

since we broke up the kids don’t know where they are staying and there last 3 months for example that have moved the following amount of days between each home 4,3,4,4,2,9,4,6,3,5,2,4,10,7,7,10,11,3,4,6,3,5. When asked where they are next Tuesday, Friday or two weeks today, they will shrug and say I don’t know. Trying to explain the rota pattern visible upsets them as it’s so complicated.

ive explained to the judge this was a trial as we now have a new judge and I simple cannot meet dads requests to have all his days off with the kids. During one of the trial months, all dads days off fell on weekends so I was without the kids for 5 weekends straight which are my non work days.

I won’t be able to do this rota permanently as my employers email says they can’t support me and I’d have to change jobs.

im also concerned I may have to see the children less that 50/50 which breaks my heart but if it means they change houses less, then I’d rather pay the required cms and let them have a rota they understand and the days with me can be planned ahead.

I feel the best option is to say i can’t support this dad and this interim consent order anymore and the children just see me every other weekend so I can secure my job and home for them to still visit.

A visual timetable may help your children to see where they are on any given day/evening in the following month. If your children need consistency, then maybe that is something you can go back to court over, but I would try to come to an agreement without the legal costs if you can.

Are you looking for ideas on how to get paid childcare to help enable you to keep your job? This section of Mumsnet is about paid childcare... childminders, nannies, nursery etc. For that you would need consistency in the days that you need to use paid childcare, as very flexible childcare is rare.

What hours do you work? (Your ex is a tosser but I’m sure you know that).

Sorry if this was the incorrect section. I having the kids while he works and I work so thought childcare was the best subject

I’m office based 7-6 with traffic. I’m expected to work longer when needed but that’s had to stop for now as I can’t get the childcare or afford it. I was trying to work weekends and learn a new career but that’s not happened as I’m currently having the kids 3 weekend out of 4 as dad is never off weekends.

Sorry, I see you point. it’s really a two part question I guess as the consent order hasn’t worked and then as you pointed out, I need flexible childcare as dad isn’t around in my two weeks with the kids as I’m covering his work.

I think you likely need to go back to court but stop trying to solve his childcare problems and just focus on yours.

Courts don't care is the bottom line.

Offer what you can that works for you, the children, your employer and childcare. Leave the rest to him.

Your breaking your neck for him. Stop doing that and let his challenges sit with him.

Don't change your job when he has a job wholly unsuitable for shared custody and he is probably enjoying give you and the children the run around.

Just say on repeat "that's not workable", "childcare doesn't work like that" "my employment cannot facilitate that".

I think what you have said is key about treating it’s not working. The judge seems to try and lead by saying “this is probably the best solution isn’t it” several times to get people to unknowingly agree. It hard to stay strong when you just want to see your kids and have a life with them you can plan long term

You both need to be able to work and also see your children, and they need consistency not never knowing where they will be.
Employers are not very flexible. Childcare can be hard to arrange. So try to come to some agreement on what works for both of you, but avoid being pushed into something unworkable for you, or which makes your childcare costs overly high.
If one parent has a varying shift pattern to their work then that is going to be hard, so they need to resolve that, which may mean a change in role.

If it’s helpful, the judge will be looking to make sure that any plan for contact / lives with arrangements are in the best interests of the children.
To do that, they will look at what’s called the welfare checklist which is a list of things that should be taken into account https://childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/the-welfare-checklist/ .
Rather than starting from a position of what suits you / ex best, I’d suggest you work out what arrangements are best for the children, what you can offer that meets that and then work through the welfare checklist explaining how your preferred arrangements will meet each criteria.
Most judges are aware that routine and predictability to children are essential and key to arrangements working long-term. So make sure that your suggestion clearly evidences both and also demonstrate that you are willing to be (somewhat) flexible to facilitate contact with father when he is available as you recognise the benefit to the children of a relationship with him. But without prioritising his relationship with the children over your own

Thank you. That’s what we tried to do with this order by consent. Unfortunately not being able to plan any any futures activities and events past next months rota has simply become unworkable and the children don’t know if they are coming or going. All childcare cost, arrangements are put on me and I’m losing time right the children to cover dads work. He then has his full days off so get maximum time with them. It’s become very one sided and only allows one parent (dad) to plan months ahead in his time. He also has no childcare to organise as that’s me and he works all the hours he is given in his flaying two weeks. I just feel we are at the end and it’s me and the kids making the sacrifices.

Yeah dad feels feel this is the best order but that’s because he gets all his days off in my two weeks with the kids and we can’t make set plans as they may fall on his days. I tried to offer this as a solution to trial but it’s made things worse. My employer is not happy I keep changing my childcare days and when I want to see the kids and they have said it’s not going to continue. They offer flexitime and shorter work days but these need to be fixed. I’m worried what could happen as dad isn’t budging. He says his employer letting him work two weeks on two weeks off is a compromise. Yet he can get another job in his two weeks not flying and I wouldn’t have any issues about making him work round me and the kids in that time. It’s just such a hard routine to maintain. Kids just move houses when they are told. They couldn’t tell you where they are on any given day next week as it’s never a stable routine.

final hearing ordered a routine of 7/3/4 with the 3 days being Friday to Sunday. Each parent deal with own childcare and work commitments and handovers are now at school m a Friday. Still 50/50 shared care lives with both. Judge said he is aware dad might not be off on the days he has the kids but that’s for dad to sort out with his employer and childcare.

That sounds like a decent outcome. Does it work for you?

Sounds good. Then childcare is very clearly dad's problem if it is his day. Hope you're ok OP

Oh that sounds positive! You get set days so the children know where they are and paying for all childcare doesn't sit with you and you can just plan and pay for regular childcare.

I've read cases on here where judges made orders that made the women run around after the men's shifts so glad it hasn't happened here.

That sounds really positive for you OP!

Yes perfect for me and the children. We are now able to plan ahead further than 6 weeks without waiting for someone’s part time rota and we have a clear pattern the children understand. Plus less dealing with the dad and him causing conflict as there is a default pattern order by a court he can’t argue with. If he can’t manage to organise 3 days off at a set time a month to see the children then that’s his problem.