Parking tickets, court summons but had sold the vehicle.

[AnotherPowerPointSlideDeck]

Hello all,

I'm wondering if anyone can help me to help my son please - he is only young and this was his first car after passing his driving test. He sold his car on 10/8/22 and immediately walked over the V5 slip and posted it at the post office - he didn't get a proof of postage. I realise that he could have done this online, but he struggles with IT and we live opposite the post office so it was easier (he thought) to post it. I know for a fact that he did this as I watched him fill it in and walk it over to the Post Office.

Thought no more about it until while he was on holiday in Sept 22 he received 7 council parking tickets all dated from 11/8/22 until 19/8/22. As he was away, I submitted, in writing via email an appeal to these. This appeal was rejected because I was not the registered keeper.

He contacted DVLA upon his return from holiday and they informed him that they had a significant backlog and that his V5 wasn't logged as yet, however hopefully it would shortly. This never happened and in May of 2023 he received a letter from DVLA stating that his car had been re-registered by someone else in April of 2023, so clearly the V5 change of keeper was never processed.

He appealed to the Council and they told him that he needed to take in a statement, which he did, however (being a young fool) he didn't get a receipt for this. However he heard nothing more from them since early this year and assumed that they had accepted his appeal.

Today he has received 6 court summons for these fines. I have made him go through his facebook messages and he has proof that he sold it to someone on that day, as the man messaged to say that he was outside and saying thanks for the car. He can also prove that he was at work and insured in a new car on these dates. Can anyone advise the best way to proceed? He has to do a witness statement for them all but is there anything else that he can add, say or do. He is terrified.

Thought no more about it until while he was on holiday in Sept 22 he received 7 council parking tickets all dated from 11/8/22 until 19/8/22.

and this was the first time he had ever received these tickets and they were chasing him to pay?

or is the first time you had seen that he had these parking tickets?

That was the first time that they contacted him, saying he hadn't paid the ones left on the windscreen of the car that was no longer in his possession. He 100% didn't know about them until that time, there was no way that he could, they were put on the car he had sold

Did he ever contact the council or lodge appeals?

He appealed to the Council and they told him that he needed to take in a statement, which he did, however (being a young fool) he didn't get a receipt for this. However he heard nothing more from them since early this year and assumed that they had accepted his appeal.

“He 100%” didn’t tell you about them Op

in your own words he’s a “young fool”

and managed to leave without any proof of postage of sending; he struggles with online business; and he didn’t get any evidence he had submitted his statement to council

He sounds a vulnerable young man with additional needs who received the parking fines but didn’t tell you and hoped they’d go away

How on earth was he meant to tell OP about tickets that were stuck on a car that he no longer owned?

They give you 28 days to pay then contact you, so OP's dates seem to suggest that he was telling the truth.

@sugarandsweetener did you completely miss the part where they had sold the car the day before the first ticket would have been given? I don't think OPs son is the fool here

Did he give the new owner's details?

OP have you got legal cover through your house insurance? If so would it be worth giving them a call? I don't know it works with it being your son though as I presume he's not named on the policy.

Are you in England as opposed to Scotland or NI?

When you say court summonses can you be more specific - to which court is he being summonsed?

And has he had any tickets or NIP letters since?

ah i see

my error and apologies

He needs to submit a defence stating that he sold the car on 10/8/22 with as much proof as you can muster and setting out what has happened as outlined in your OP. I would also contact the council pointing out that he appealed, that he supplied a statement as requested and has heard nothing further from them until receiving the summons. In particular, point out that he has never been informed of the outcome of his appeal.

OP is the date on the parking tickets after the date on which he sold the car? Does he have any record of the sale (money going into his account which aligns with an advert or similar)? Does he have any photos of the car before it was sold?

I had a series of parking fines and CC charges when I was nowhere in the vicinity of the fine areas. My car number had been cloned - this is not uncommon. As I still had the car I was able to photograph it and show small differences between my car and the identical model parking illegally. If you have photos of the car, compare them to the pictures of the car in the fine notices.

I was advised to call the police on the non urgent number and register the fraud - no chance of them catching the culprits but that gave me a crime number which I used to appeal the fines. The photos and the crime number were enough to successfully appeal. You might be able to do similar, especially if when reporting the fraud you make a statement about dates of ownership. Ideally this should be done immediately (the appeal process stopped the clock on fine escalation) but it may not be too late.

@Bromptotoo we are in England and it is to the Northants business court

@prh47bridge Thanks that is what we are now doing. He has the listing on facebook market place and also messages from the buyer saying they are outside our house etc. The tickets are all from the day after he sold it and for a week following that. He was paid by bank transfer so he has proof of that. He also cancelled the insurance and got insurance on his new car that day which also helps to build a picture. His manager has also offered to write a letter stating that he was at work at a different place and time at the time of the tickets.
@LIZS No nothing as far as I am aware, and I normally open the post as he works away a lot. He doesn't have the new owners details other than their name, all the other details were on the slip that my son posted to the DVLA (and they appear to have promptly lost)

So stressful. My son burst into tears over it on Friday, bless him. I think he may have learned a lesson in the importance of record keeping

I think you’re being really harsh on your son here.
There is no requirement to get proof of posting when you send off a V5. He filled it in and sent it off straight away. The new owner should have got in touch when they didn’t receive the updated one within a reasonable timescale.

(it’s not clear whether it was the Royal Mail or the DVLA who lost the V5 update form).
It’s not his fault the council were idiots and lost his statement.

He needs to call the parking fines people at the council and ask what happened to his statement.

He has loads of proof that he sold the car when he did. he won’t lose the court case.

In fact, it was you who messed up by sending in the appeal on his behalf because they are usually very clear that only the registered keeper can do this.

@KingsleyBorder Thanks - I just rang the council and they have agreed to re look at it if he sends over all the evidence!

I don't think the summonses you mention are the sort to which your son can file a defence and have his ‘day on court’. Rather they’re part of the process allowing the Council to treat the fine(s) as a County Court judgement and send in Bailiffs.

Your son needs to act NOW. The council WILL send in private Bailiffs and they’re really difficult to deal with even if you’ve got the age/experience etc to face them down.

Next bit might seem TL:DR but it helps if I explain the process from ticket to where you are now.

If a ticket is issued and the Council have not received payment after 28 days they issue the Registered Keeper with a Notice to Owner (NtO). I suspect these are the September 22 documents you mention. The NtO opens the door to make formal representations to the Council. If the Council rejects those then the Keeper can appeal to a Judicial Tribunal. I think this may be where things went wrong.

If the Council receive nothing, or they reject the representations and there’s no appeal to the Tribunal then the Council issue a Charge Notice to the Keeper which increases the ‘fine’ by 50%. If that isn’t paid the Council register the Charge Notice with Northampton County Court. Once registered it’s treated as a judgement debt and can be enforced. Councils invariably do this by instructing a private bailiff firm like Marstons to enforce.

There’s a ‘safety valve’ here in that a Keeper who says steps in the process have been missed can make a sworn ‘Statutory Declaration’ to the Court. If that’s accepted, and you need a strong case for it to be accepted, then effectively the clock is wound back and the Keeper has another bite at the cherry.
Had you not said the Council have agreed to look again then the step NOW as urged above would be make a Statutory Declaration in respect of each of the Charge Notices.

Have the Council confirmed in writing that they’re looking into this and that enforcement has been suspended pending the conclusion of that inquiry? If not try and get an email sent ASAP.

Bailiffs are, perhaps understandably, very cynical of claims that their journey was not necessary and that their client is having second thoughts. If you think they might call, they should give notice before they do, move cars they could clamp away from the house.

If they knock at your door don’t let them get even a toe over the threshold.

Good luck and best wishes!!

I think the best course of action is to attend court with all of your evidence, and copies of all correspondence, and present the facts to the magistrates or judge. They are usually quiet fair minded, and must see this sort of thing quiet a lot.

There is perhaps a learning opportunity for both of you here. This is his business that he needs to sort out. He cannot expect and he shouldn’t allow other people to take control of his business.

OP I know it is difficult to see him so distressed but maybe take a back seat. Allow him to control this as this will build his resilience. You won’t always be able to do that and others might not want to. Those that do could be exploitative.

If this is Parking Enforcement then, in the normal course of events, defence and a hearing are not options once it gets Northampton County Court. The Council are filing their Charge Notice with the Court so that they can send in Bailiffs.

If the proper process is followed your 'day in court' is with the Traffic Penalty Tribunal or, of the infringement was in London, London Tribunals. OP's son missed out on this for reasons that are not presently clear.

I 'test drove' London Tribunals a few years ago and won my case!!