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Legal matters

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Who is Next of Kin? What do they need to do?

13 replies

conversationswith · 23/11/2023 18:34

A relative has died. For various reasons, he had had very little contact with his family for many years.
The closest relatives are:
Adult daughter: now lives in the USA. The deceased and the mother of the daughter got divorced when she was a very young child. Her mum took her to the States, they started a new life there. The daughter has had very little contact with her Dad over the years.
Brother: Is now in his eighties. The two of them fell out and didn't speak for several decades. They did make up and were on speaking terms when their mum died a decade ago, but they had very little, if any, contact for the last few years and lived a long distance away.
Niece and nephew: (Adult children of the brother). Didn't see the deceased growing up because of the falling out of the two brothers. Saw the deceased very occasionally as an adult (the last time was a decade ago for the niece, about 5 years ago for the brother). Lived a long distance away.
Ex-wife: had the most recent regular contact, still speaking occasionally, (including within a few weeks before death), but have been divorced for several years.
The daughter doesn't want to be named as next of kin. The brother doesn't either. What happens in this kind of situation? Does it just go down the list until someone is willing to be? What if no one is willing to be?
I'm the niece in this.
What exactly does being a next of kin involve in terms of responsibilities? (I've been googling, but not sure I've got a full grasp of it). I'm particularly wary of taking on legal financial responsibility for the funeral of someone I barely knew, especially as DH and I have been in a precarious financial situation for a long time and have only just been clawing our way out. From reading, it looks as though the responsibility for the funeral costs would be on me, but this can (sometimes? usually?) come out of the deceased's estate with payment to the funeral directors being made after probate. Not sure how to find out more about this in this particular situation.
In fact, I don't know how to proceed with any of it.
His house is in a fairly distant part of the country from me. In an area I don't know. It may not be secured currently (police needed to enter). I have no idea how one goes about getting access if it's locked. I wouldn't be able to go down there for more than a day at a time and it would be difficult to arrange, (and my brother the same) due to work and family commitments.
It seems unlikely there will be a Will (he lived a very chaotic and shambolic life) but perhaps there could be - where do I check first, the National Register of Wills?
How do I go about sorting utilities, bank accounts, and anything else that needs to be done after a death? Given that I know so little about him or his life? Is it just a case of going through the house looking for documents? Surely not, when so much banking is online now?
There's going to be a post-mortem, so I think much of this I can't get started on until the body is released and we have a death certificate, but it would be good to know what's needed and what being NOK involves in advance of that point.

OP posts:
Lamelie · 23/11/2023 19:21

Are you being encouraged to step up? Next of Kin has no legal status except for under 18 year olds. If he’s died without a will someone needs to apply for Grant of Letters of Administration. Winding up an estate is a lot of work so honestly, unless it’s nearby, you’re doing it for love or you can charge for you time- I’ve said if I’m going to be executor again I’d want £10,000 + expenses.
I’m doing it at the moment for someone I love, I’ve just worked out and claimed back some of the expenses though as it’s taking up so much time.

Sisterpita · 23/11/2023 19:38

As pp said NOK is not relevant.

I am assuming your uncle lived in England otherwise this is not relevant.
This link helps you determine who the beneficiary/ies are if there is no will. https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will. As he was twice divorced and had one child, his daughter inherits.

Ideally the beneficiary takes on the role of Administrator. However, as she is in USA it makes sense that someone in England does this.

The first step is to decide whether or not this is an insolvent estate - if this is a possibility walk away.

If however he had property and savings then there is a lot of help on-line on what needs to be done. Do not underestimate how much work this is, so think carefully about whether or not you want to take this on. Even appointing a solicitor does not minimise the work you need to do.

This guide may help https://www.which.co.uk/money/wills-and-probate/probate

WRT the funeral the administrator does not pay for it, they ask for an invoice and take it to your uncles bank and they pay it.

The first step is probably contacting the Police by phone and arranging to collect the keys to the property (which should be secure). Then going through the paperwork to see if there is a will.

HTH to start you off. MSE has a good forum.

Intestacy - who inherits if someone dies without a will?

Find out who is entitled to a share of someone’s property, possessions and money if they die without making a will

https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

Ilikewinter · 23/11/2023 19:43

Honestly OP I wouldnt get involved, im currently sorting out my DM estate and affairs and its sooo tough and thats for someone I love. Cant imagine trying to do it for someone who is literally a stranger. Nothing is straight forward and everything takes at least twice as long as you think.

StrongTea · 23/11/2023 19:44

We had a similar situation with police entering, property was left secured. We phoned local solicitors and asked if they held a will. Lot to do if living a distance away, we were approx an hour away but took weeks to clear house and sort out things as relative hadn’t cleared out anything since his wife died 30 years before.

User17239509 · 23/11/2023 19:53

If there is money in the estate the funeral will be paid for out of that, the best would be to arrange a direct cremation which has no service and costs about £1000, maybe suggest this to other family members

AnnaMagnani · 23/11/2023 19:58

If your relative hasn't made a will NOK is relevant in terms of inheritance.

The NOK on your list is his daughter.

However in terms of sorting out the estate, arranging a funeral - no, no-one can be made to do it.

Daughter might feel more interested if she realised she was losing her inheritance, especially if he was a home owner, by not informing utilities etc and stepping up.

User17239509 · 23/11/2023 20:01

You can do a Certainty Will Search, that will come out of the estate, it costs about £100, if there are assets at least this stuff is all paid for. If he died intestate the daughter will inherit

User17239509 · 23/11/2023 20:06

There are only certain relatives that can do the Letters of Administration like children, spouses, siblings so you may not be able to do it anyway, OP

TicTacNicNak · 23/11/2023 20:14

Hi OP. The daughter is official NOK whether she likes it or not. However, being NOK doesn't mean you have to take on any responsibilities. Likewise, you don't have to take on any responsibilities either.

The funeral can be paid out of the relative's bank account, providing they had the funds in there. The funeral director has to provide an invoice to the bank's bereavement team to do this (I'm a funeral arranger).

Just because you're related to someone, it doesn't mean you can be forced to take on any of the admin, and don't feel guilty about refusing if you had no real relationship with the deceased.

If the ex-wife had the most amenable relationship with the deceased then perhaps she would prefer to arrange the funeral.

OVienna · 23/11/2023 21:14

@conversationswith Is there any chance he had a friend who might be able to help - a bit? Maybe the ex-wife would know.

One way to get the daughter involved is to say - no problem, I'll help as long as we agree fees for my time are the value of whatever remains of the estate after all the costs are incurred. It makes everything sound very grubby, I know, and I'm not sure if you could enforce this. But it might make her stand up and take notice. Do you know if he owned his house?

conversationswith · 27/11/2023 21:53

Thanks so much to everyone who has posted advice here, it's much appreciated and really helpful in figuring out how to handle the situation.

OP posts:
CharlotteStreetW1 · 27/11/2023 22:33

If there was no will (was there?), only a beneficiary can apply for letters of administration - first line would be the daughter. However, she can appoint a solicitor to do it all for her. We've had cases where we've gone into the house to search for paperwork, arrange clearance etc when there was a daughter about 50 miles away but she had no interest in doing anything except taking the money.

Even if there is a will, the named executor can renounce/appoint a solicitor as attorney if they don't want to do it.

It's a total PITA OP so if you can avoid it, I really would.

DelphiniumBlue · 27/11/2023 22:51

When my friend's cocklodger partner died, she was told she could not register the death unless she agreed to be responsible for the funeral/undertaker costs. She had been present at the death, and so thought that would be sufficient. As she was not the beneficiary of his estate, she didn't want to take on the funeral costs, as was not convinced that the executors would pay her back. So she walked away.
My point is that if you take on these responsibilities, you should get reimbursed technically speaking, if the estate has enough money in it to cover that. But even if it does, it can take a long time to get that. If you are not the administrator, or a main beneficiary, and therefore have some control over it, I wouldn't get involved.

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