Chimneys need fixing Party Wall Issue

FelinityHelix · 2023-11-19T20:02:41+00:00

Raging! Advice needed! Will try and keep this short. I am the owner of a mid Victorian terrace. Next door is owned by someone who turned their property into an HMO for students. (Livid but not much I can do about that) The two chimneys on the party wall - so joined owned, are in a bad state of repair. Recently one of them cause a leak into our bedroom. Insurance covered an initial repair but they advised the whole chimney stack needs pulling down and rebuilding and they could only do a temporary repair in the interim. Any rebuild would be met by myself privately and the owner next door. I reached out to him via his letting agents. He initially responded back to say happy to split the costs - one of the roofers provided a photo so he could see how bad it was. He wanted us to get some more quotes - seem reasonable. So, I went about getting about 6 quotes. Since September he has not replied to a single email about the quotes. I have text him via old fashioned sms and WhatsApp three times - no response. They’ve been delivered and I can see he has been online. But left in grey ticks. (Unread) I have contacted the letting agency who apparently can’t get hold of him either, I asked them if that was true or just the landlord telling them to ignore me. They advised they honestly cannot get hold of him. They won’t provide his actual address so I can send a letter direct but said would forward on any correspondence. I’ve asked them if they were happy to let out a house where a brick could actually kill someone if it fell on them. They just said they need to be instructed by the landlord or the council. I am going to raise with my insurers again and try and get legal advice. from what I’ve read I think I may need to obtain a surveyor report to confirm the chimneys are dangerous and that will give me permission to fix without needing him to sign a party wall agreement. I guess I have to pay this myself but could then take him to small claims? Should I contact the council and university about the letting agency and his ethics as a landlord purposely ignoring this safety issue? any advice is greatly appreciated!

kidneymidney · 19/11/2023 20:30

You can employ a tracer who will do exactly that. Find out his exact address and number

Collaborate · 20/11/2023 09:33

His address for service will be the address on the Land Registry title. You can get a copy of this for £3.

You need to be serving a party wall notice on him, and assuming he doesn't respond you then have to appoint a surveyor to look after his interests. The chances are that the cost of works will be split equally between you both. If you want to take down the chimney on his side you need to go through the PWA.

Take a look at this https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preventing-and-resolving-disputes-in-relation-to-party-walls/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-explanatory-booklet

The Party Wall etc Act 1996: explanatory booklet

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preventing-and-resolving-disputes-in-relation-to-party-walls/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-explanatory-booklet

Sisterpita · 20/11/2023 21:15

@Collaborate beat me to it address from Land Registry https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

Search for land and property information

Find a property and get its title plan, title register and see who owns it

https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

thecatneuterer · 20/11/2023 21:55

Collaborate · 20/11/2023 09:33

His address for service will be the address on the Land Registry title. You can get a copy of this for £3.

You need to be serving a party wall notice on him, and assuming he doesn't respond you then have to appoint a surveyor to look after his interests. The chances are that the cost of works will be split equally between you both. If you want to take down the chimney on his side you need to go through the PWA.

Take a look at this https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preventing-and-resolving-disputes-in-relation-to-party-walls/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-explanatory-booklet

Not true about the land registry. I had to trace the owners of the house next to me (let out), the address was given as the property address. There was no other address for them.

Collaborate · 20/11/2023 22:02

thecatneuterer · 20/11/2023 21:55

Not true about the land registry. I had to trace the owners of the house next to me (let out), the address was given as the property address. There was no other address for them.

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Entirely true. Read my post. It’s the proper address for a service of all documents in connection with that property. Including PWA notices. Doesn’t matter that they’re no longer there. When you own a property you tell HMLR what address to use if people want to serve any legal proceedings or notices on you.

thecatneuterer · 20/11/2023 22:10

Collaborate · 20/11/2023 22:02

Entirely true. Read my post. It’s the proper address for a service of all documents in connection with that property. Including PWA notices. Doesn’t matter that they’re no longer there. When you own a property you tell HMLR what address to use if people want to serve any legal proceedings or notices on you.

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Well given that the tenants didn't know how to contact the landlord it didn't help at all that their house would be considered a proper address for service of documents - it wasn't going to help me get the party wall agreement signed.

Collaborate · 20/11/2023 22:15

thecatneuterer · 20/11/2023 22:10

Well given that the tenants didn't know how to contact the landlord it didn't help at all that their house would be considered a proper address for service of documents - it wasn't going to help me get the party wall agreement signed.

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If you understand the PWA process you’ll understand that silence from the neighbours means you get to appoint a surveyor to look after their interests. You don’t need their consent.

thecatneuterer · 20/11/2023 22:17

Collaborate · 20/11/2023 22:15

If you understand the PWA process you’ll understand that silence from the neighbours means you get to appoint a surveyor to look after their interests. You don’t need their consent.

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I would certainly much rather just get the thing signed than have to pay for another surveyor!

Collaborate · 20/11/2023 22:18

thecatneuterer · 20/11/2023 22:17

I would certainly much rather just get the thing signed than have to pay for another surveyor!

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Very well, but you’re not OP.

underneaththeash · 21/11/2023 13:28

the HMO needs to be licensed by the local council.
i would text again from another number and state that you’re going to contact the council if he doesn’t get back to you.

stevenway1 · 21/11/2023 14:06

Steve the party wall surveyor here... there are several hurdles here. Firstly you are right that shared chimney can be a party structure, and that costs for repairs to party structures can be defrayed between the parties (owners). Usually 50:50 but it can vary. As its a party structure you need to serve a party wall notice. Assuming he doesn't replay then you will need to appoint a surveyor for them. The surveyors will prepare a party wall award which will include how the costs of repair and fees are split. So far so good, except that you haven't got their money and you will have paid out for surveyors.

Although it might be tempting to ignore all that pfaff and just do the work and then try and get the money back in doing so you will be breaching the PW Act (which is a statutory requirement) and placing yourself at risk of a) a claim for damage and b) no chance of getting the money.

With a party wall award that is a legally binding document, including the directions of the surveyors in respect of payments and costs. As a legal document that can be enforced in the county court (albeit at more cost but almost certainly recoverable).

For service the Act says - (1)A notice or other document required or authorised to be served under this Act may be served on a person—

(a)by delivering it to him in person;

(b)by sending it by post to him at his usual or last-known residence or place of business in the United Kingdom;

As the HMO next door is a place of business you can serve it to him there, even if he is not there. I would also send a copy to the letting agent with a request for them send it onward, and i would send a copy to the address on the title deed which you can get from Land Registry as above.

Happy to discuss FOC

Steve

Geekygeek · 22/11/2023 12:51

stevenway1 · 21/11/2023 14:06

Steve the party wall surveyor here... there are several hurdles here. Firstly you are right that shared chimney can be a party structure, and that costs for repairs to party structures can be defrayed between the parties (owners). Usually 50:50 but it can vary. As its a party structure you need to serve a party wall notice. Assuming he doesn't replay then you will need to appoint a surveyor for them. The surveyors will prepare a party wall award which will include how the costs of repair and fees are split. So far so good, except that you haven't got their money and you will have paid out for surveyors.

Although it might be tempting to ignore all that pfaff and just do the work and then try and get the money back in doing so you will be breaching the PW Act (which is a statutory requirement) and placing yourself at risk of a) a claim for damage and b) no chance of getting the money.

With a party wall award that is a legally binding document, including the directions of the surveyors in respect of payments and costs. As a legal document that can be enforced in the county court (albeit at more cost but almost certainly recoverable).

For service the Act says - (1)A notice or other document required or authorised to be served under this Act may be served on a person—

(a)by delivering it to him in person;

(b)by sending it by post to him at his usual or last-known residence or place of business in the United Kingdom;

As the HMO next door is a place of business you can serve it to him there, even if he is not there. I would also send a copy to the letting agent with a request for them send it onward, and i would send a copy to the address on the title deed which you can get from Land Registry as above.

Happy to discuss FOC

Steve

Steve - out of interest….. would there be an alternative route if the works were time sensitive? Better to undertake works that risk additional damage/injury if the chimney failed.

stevenway1 · 22/11/2023 13:13

Again not easily if you want to use the mechanics of the PW act to recover costs, trouble is PW is a statutory requirement really trumped only by a dangerous structure notice. And if it's that bad, then the work should have been done by now?