Beneficiary's and separated husband

[Teapleasebobb]

Will try and give as much info as possible, I know the answer is to get a solicitor involved but no one has any spare funds for that right now.

MIL is in a care home with dementia, she is still technically married, but they have been separated for nearly 10 years. Both MIL and not quite exDH have moved on with other partners. MIL has no assets, she has a pension worth about £80k but she's only 62 so not currently drawing her pension. MILs current partner, DH and BIL are all deputies for MIL appointed by the court of protection. We have been unable to locate a Will and think it's unlikely that there is one. There are 4 beneficiaries listed with the Will company (BIL only managed to update the Will company with this info this week) these are MILs partner, DH and 2 BILs.

So my questions are. as MIL is still married and without complete certainty around a Will, what are the chances that not quite ex DH could claim the pension when MIL passes away? Also, is there anyway to find out if a Will exists whilst MIL is still alive (if there is one we have no idea where it is or where it would be). MILs ex is an awful person and we wouldn't put it past him to fight for some money if there is any, even though they have been separated for so long.
Happy to provide more info if needed.

The next of kin, so her DH, stands to inherit everything. The courts have no discretion in this whatsoever. That’s the point of wills!

Without a Will they have to follow intestacy rules surely

@SilverBranchGoldenPears but as far as we're aware there isn't a will and MILs sons and partner are now listed as beneficiaries of the pension.

Does that count for pensions too? There are no other assets.

Her husband will be entitled to her pension in the absence of a will

That’s not true. Even if her husband is named, the trustees have power to nominate. Get in touch with the pension company.

No it doesn’t. The trustees decide. Is there an expression of wishes?

Pensions (dependent on type) often sit outside the estate and so the pension company have discretion as to the beneficiaries. They look at all people with a claim, which is likely to include the estranged husband, but if they were separated they will take that into account I imagine.

The pension company will know and be able to tell you who could be a beneficiary and if the carehome fees will be taken out of the pension pot.

A partner doesn't have legal status.

Dependent children are different to you as independent adults. Dependent children eg of school age would be highly likely to benefit.

Is she still paying into her pension (via the financial deputies) or is payment frozen? If her pension starts paying out in 3 years' time (when she's 65yo?) Wouldn't her care home then request contribution towards fees (as she has assets)? Sadly 80k wont last very long if paying care home fees.

When I was executor for my father, who died suddenly before pension age, he had 6 pensions. Four of them were outside the estate (so the pension company decided and went with what my dad had expressed for his estate in his will, in our case) and two were inside (so subject to the will and IHT). He had an older brother but was estranged from him and his family and I told them that (they wanted names of all relatives including cousins and their children). So the pension money went to children and grandchildren in same proportions as will (no partner). I was so relieved my dad made it relatively easy admin-wise by keeping all paperwork filed and having an up to date will.

The pension is frozen and she is having palliative care so isn't expected to live until pensionable age.

It very much depends on the type of pension and what the scheme rules/contract say.

For example, most occupational defined benefit pension schemes provide an automatic spouse's pension and if your MIL is still married when she dies, then her legal husband would be entitled to that pension. There is often no "money" to give to anyone else unless she had paid AVCs for example. Some rules might also allow for a discretionary dependants pension alongside a spouses pension, but you would have to check with the administrator.

If it's an occupational defined contribution scheme, and the benefits haven't yet been put into payment, usually any funds are paid at the discretion of the trustee, so you can put your case forward as to why her legal spouse shouldn't get anything - but there's no guarantee that the trustees wouldn't grant benefits to her legal husband.

If it's a personal pension (also a defined contribution pension), rather than an occupational pension that she got from her employer, then you'll need to check with the provider what their rules around death benefits are.

If the pension benefits are already in payment, this can also affect what benefits are paid and how.

In essence, her attorneys on the POA would need to get in contact with the administrators of the pension scheme to find out what the rules are, as no one on here can tell you what will happen.

Thanks for all of the contributions, it's very much appreciated.

Teapleasebobb - sorry to learn your MIL is on palliative care. Sadmin is so hard when you're in the thick of it, and have family members who you anticipate will be awkward, but at least your DH has support from you, his brother and MILs DP in the coming months. Wish you well.

Thank you. It's really taking its toll on DH and BIL as partner 'can't do paperwork' as it's apparently too difficult so it's all fallen to them. They haven't got a clue either but they're out there trying to find answers.

Pensions have all sorts of rules depending on what type it is and the scheme set up. It would ordinarily be separate to any will and she should have had an expression of wish if she wanted it to go to a specific person or people. Expressions of wish are not legally binding and can be contested. Someone with authority to discuss should call the pension company to ask what happens when she dies.

I suppose the next question is whether her ex husband is the sort of person to go after money, knowing it will deprive his sons of a small inheritance. By the time any processing fees and funeral expenses are taken, it is not much split between four people. Why does your husband think he will have to pay for it all?

Ex DH absolutely would take anything knowing it would be depriving others, he deprived MIL of so much whilst they were married, which is why we're all trying to make sure that he gets nothing. We have absolutely no experience in pensions/ funerals as we've never had to deal with them before so it's all a learning curve. I've told DH to speak with BIL to tell him that they should get solicitors involved, they'll just have to find the money somehow.

No advice but hope you get the answers you want, 62 is no age to get dementia, it must be very difficult for you all.

I would get in touch with the pension provider and ask about what happens to the money when she passes, will they release funds to pay for the funeral, carehome fees and the beneficiaries. I am sorry you are in this position, it can be very difficult.

Pensions frequently pay a pension to a widow/CP and maybe a nominated non-marital partner, depending on its terms. They may well also pay a pension to dependent children under 18 or still in specified forms of education.

If there is no widow/equivalent or qualifying DC, then it is very likely that the pension will die with her.

Check the T&Cs.

If there is any lump sum death payment (and there may not be), then it is most likely to go to the person she last nominated, but there is always a chance that you might be able to persuade the company to include others as well. Worth a shot.

I can say that of the six pensions my father had with three different companies, they all paid a lump sum death benefit to his children and grandchildren, so I think it is fairly common. But you need to find out the rules of the scheme. You might be able to look it up online.

She isn’t legally separated. She is married. Her husband will be entitled to her pension in the absence of a will.

A pension isn’t considered as part of an estate covered by a Will. If beneficiaries are stipulated within the pension, that’s where they will go… unless of course all taken up with care fees, as seems likely.