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Original poster

Beneficiary's and separated husband

48 replies

Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 10:28

Will try and give as much info as possible, I know the answer is to get a solicitor involved but no one has any spare funds for that right now.

MIL is in a care home with dementia, she is still technically married, but they have been separated for nearly 10 years. Both MIL and not quite exDH have moved on with other partners. MIL has no assets, she has a pension worth about £80k but she's only 62 so not currently drawing her pension. MILs current partner, DH and BIL are all deputies for MIL appointed by the court of protection. We have been unable to locate a Will and think it's unlikely that there is one. There are 4 beneficiaries listed with the Will company (BIL only managed to update the Will company with this info this week) these are MILs partner, DH and 2 BILs.

So my questions are. as MIL is still married and without complete certainty around a Will, what are the chances that not quite ex DH could claim the pension when MIL passes away? Also, is there anyway to find out if a Will exists whilst MIL is still alive (if there is one we have no idea where it is or where it would be). MILs ex is an awful person and we wouldn't put it past him to fight for some money if there is any, even though they have been separated for so long.
Happy to provide more info if needed.

OP posts:
Original poster
Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 10:30

Argh, can't change the title, meant beneficiaries!

OP posts:
Afteropening · 18/11/2023 10:31

very likely unless legal separation.

who has financial POA?

Afteropening · 18/11/2023 10:32

if he is awful

she should have divorced him at some point in last decade

and certainly following diagnosis

porridgecake · 18/11/2023 10:33

If she has no assets she has nothing to leave. The pension is the only thing to consider. I would have thought her appointed deputies would be able to contact the pension provider to find out who she has nominated as beneficiary. That is by best guess based on my own experience though. IANAL.

porridgecake · 18/11/2023 10:37

AgeUK are great for advice in the first instance. IME the care home/ SS are going to want any funds she might have and that includes pensions.

Original poster
Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 10:41

Afteropening · 18/11/2023 10:32

if he is awful

she should have divorced him at some point in last decade

and certainly following diagnosis

Agreed, we had this conversation with her several times, it just fell on deaf ears. She's always been a bury your head in the sand person.

OP posts:
NotDavidTennant · 18/11/2023 10:42

When you say 'the Will company' do you mean the pension company?

Original poster
Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 10:44

Afteropening · 18/11/2023 10:31

very likely unless legal separation.

who has financial POA?

No power of attorney as her dementia was too severe for her to agree, that's why DH, MILs partner and BIL are all deputies appointed by the court of protection. They are financially responsible for her.

OP posts:
Afteropening · 18/11/2023 10:44

Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 10:41

Agreed, we had this conversation with her several times, it just fell on deaf ears. She's always been a bury your head in the sand person.

Show quote history

well i am afraid to say then - that we here are.

She isn’t legally separated. She is married. Her husband will be entitled to her pension in the absence of a will.

I think a lot of this could have been addressed way before now. Namely sorted FOA and explaining to your MIL the co sequences of not divorcing

if she was aware of the consequences and still chose not to divorce him… well, this isn’t a problem then

Original poster
Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 10:44

NotDavidTennant · 18/11/2023 10:42

When you say 'the Will company' do you mean the pension company?

Bugger, yes sorry.

OP posts:
jackstini · 18/11/2023 10:48

If the pension company has your MIL's partner and her 3 sons already as official beneficiaries then the almost exh can't get anything there

If she has no other assets, there is nothing for him to claim on

Any idea what he has done? If he hasn't made a new will but dies first, your MIL will be the beneficiary

Original poster
Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 10:48

Thanks @Afteropening we did wonder about this. Do you know if the deputies can argue this or is it cut and dried? We've heard different things which is why I posted on the legal board to see if there's any way to challenge this given the circumstances.

OP posts:
Afteropening · 18/11/2023 10:49

Your mother knew the consequences when she had her faculties

and she chose not to legally separate let alone divorce

so unlikely a case

Bostonbakedbeans · 18/11/2023 10:54

Surely it would depend on who she nominated as beneficiary to her pension when she set it up and whether she changed it after they separated? Can the deputies contact her pension company and ask for the information?
If her ExDH is still listed (as she never changed it) then it will go to her exH. I'm pretty sure you legally can't change it now she lacks capacity.

Original poster
Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 10:54

jackstini · 18/11/2023 10:48

If the pension company has your MIL's partner and her 3 sons already as official beneficiaries then the almost exh can't get anything there

If she has no other assets, there is nothing for him to claim on

Any idea what he has done? If he hasn't made a new will but dies first, your MIL will be the beneficiary

That's good to know, thank you. Can he contest the beneficiaries?

I imagine he has made a new will, he's was always more on the ball. MIL did file for divorce a couple of years ago, but stupidly did a cheap online divorce petition and 'ex' said he wasn't happy with it as there wasn't a clean break clause in it. She said ok make the changes to it and get back to me and he never did!
It's been a bone of contention for years with MIL, never confronting anything, ever. We talked about POA when she first started with the dementia, but they wouldn't do anything about it and then it was too late.

OP posts:
Original poster
Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 10:58

Afteropening · 18/11/2023 10:49

Your mother knew the consequences when she had her faculties

and she chose not to legally separate let alone divorce

so unlikely a case

Yes I know, which is why we are trying to do damage control now, we started this process a couple of years ago, it's taken literally years to get to this point. I'm just looking for legal information. No one is as frustrated at this as we are, all DH says is that he doesn't want to have to take on anyone's debts (ie funeral costs). Opinions are all well and good, but I posted for legal help.

OP posts:
Original poster
Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 10:59

Bostonbakedbeans · 18/11/2023 10:54

Surely it would depend on who she nominated as beneficiary to her pension when she set it up and whether she changed it after they separated? Can the deputies contact her pension company and ask for the information?
If her ExDH is still listed (as she never changed it) then it will go to her exH. I'm pretty sure you legally can't change it now she lacks capacity.

The pension company said they had no beneficiaries listed so BIL gave them the names this week.

OP posts:
NotDavidTennant · 18/11/2023 11:05

If she dies without a will then her husband will be the beneficiary of the estate regardless of the fact that they are estranged.

However, pensions aren't normally part of the estate and what happens to the pension upon death is usually determined by the rules of the pension scheme. If she has nominated certain people as beneficiaries then it is likely that it will go to them, but without knowing the details of the pension scheme no-one here will be able to confirm that with absolute certainty.

daisychain01 · 18/11/2023 11:11

The pension company said they had no beneficiaries listed so BIL gave them the names this week.

BIL gave them the names, but the Pension Trustees still have the right to decide not to use the names that have been given, particularly when these are individuals with a vested interest who stand to gain.

They will be more likely to give the pension to MILs DH.

There is no such legal status of "nearly ex", they are either the DH or not.

burnoutbabe · 18/11/2023 11:15

If it's clear they are separated and both living with new partners then it's unlikely the pension company, for a discretionary trust, would pay the ex husband

Assuming all separate finances etc

I assume it's clear they are separated and have different addresses and did before mum went into care home.

Original poster
Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 11:23

burnoutbabe · 18/11/2023 11:15

If it's clear they are separated and both living with new partners then it's unlikely the pension company, for a discretionary trust, would pay the ex husband

Assuming all separate finances etc

I assume it's clear they are separated and have different addresses and did before mum went into care home.

Yes it's clear, MIL and partner have been living together for about 7 years or so and he's been her full time carer for the past 2 years before she went in to a home.

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burnoutbabe · 18/11/2023 11:25

Okay

Well I think you probably have done everything you can.

Yes the pension company may decide to give it to ex husband as it's discretionary but nothing really you can do about that now, if a divorce is not legally possible..

Original poster
Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 11:29

daisychain01 · 18/11/2023 11:11

The pension company said they had no beneficiaries listed so BIL gave them the names this week.

BIL gave them the names, but the Pension Trustees still have the right to decide not to use the names that have been given, particularly when these are individuals with a vested interest who stand to gain.

They will be more likely to give the pension to MILs DH.

There is no such legal status of "nearly ex", they are either the DH or not.

Well the that would work in our favour then surely? Isnt it more likely that they would award any pension money to children and partner (who she's been living with for the past 7 ish years and who's been her full time carer for 2) than for a husband who she hasn't lived with for 10 years if it's at their discretion?

OP posts:
HappyHamsters · 18/11/2023 11:30

Where is the 80k pension? Its an assett so can thecarehome take it towards her care

Original poster
Teapleasebobb · 18/11/2023 11:32

HappyHamsters · 18/11/2023 11:30

Where is the 80k pension? Its an assett so can thecarehome take it towards her care

The pension hasn't been drawn yet so we expect that care home fees will be taken from it when it is.

OP posts: