Employed for tax purposes - sick pay?

[Concestor]

I am basically self employed and was due years but recently my employer made me be employed for tax purposes IE I'm on payroll but I don't have any employment rights or privileges. I only get paid for hours worked, if I go on holiday I don't get paid.

I'm currently really unwell mentally and desperately need to be signed off, but I don't know if I could still be paid? I put in a monthly hours claim currently to get paid, so if I wasn't working how would I do that?

I don't want to ask my employer because I don't want then to know I'm unwell if I won't be able to take some time off paid, as they might make me take time off anyway but I need to be earning.

Are you entitled to statutory sick pay?

That doesn't sound right. If you are employed you are entitled to leave, statutory sick pay, pension etc.

What does your contract say?

Ate you engaged personally, or through your own limited company?

I have no idea re SSP. I'm not an employee, I'm employed for tax purposes so I get paid through payroll but am not an employee so I don't have any employment rights. I don't have a contract, I have a letter of engagement.
I don't have a limited company.
This is a major uk employer who have legal departments etc so I'm led to believe this is a thing.
I'm basically self employed except I'm paid via the payroll.

There are loads of us working for them in this way, we used to be self employed and then they brought this in. It was to do with IR35

Do you pay tax through self assessment or through PAYE?

Honestly, on the face of it, it sounds dodgy. Big employers are frequently dodgy! I’d use the HMRC calculator to determine whether you’re an employee and talk to ACAS. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-employment-status-for-tax

But if you’re not an employee, then there’s no sick pay. Which is precisely why companies will keep people on illegal term, it’s cheaper if they don’t get found out.

As you are engaged personally (rather than through an intermediary ie your own limited company) then it is nothing to do with IR35, which covers services provided through an intermediary.

It sounds like you may be a "worker" rather than an "employee" or self-employed.

It may also be CIS deductions, although I've assumed not as I'd expect you to know about that if it is the case.

I also agree with a PP that just because it's a big business doesn't mean they are fully complying with their legal requirements.

Have a look at the below links as well as the HMRC check linked to above to see if they helps https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/basic-rights-and-contracts/check-your-employment-status/

https://www.acas.org.uk/employment-status

I used to pay through self assessment but now it's through the payroll since they made this change.

This is what it says, which is what I said in my op, self employed for tax purposes, but I don't actually know what that means in terms of practicalities which is what I'm asking.

But they do deduct tax!

That all sounds very confusing, why kind of work are you doing?

Unfortunately it would be very outing if I said.
It's my opinion that they should be employed roles, but they aren't, they are this weird thing instead now and it means I've no idea where I stand.

If it is a specific role, within one of the exceptions to HMRC general rules, then you aren't going to get the answer you need asking a general question on here without the details needed.

That's the opposite of what you said in your op.

If you're on the payroll for the company you do work for then you're an employee of the company. It's as simple as that. So you have all the same rights an employee has, including statutory entitlement to holidays, sick pay, etc. There are no exceptions.

Alternative scenarios are...

Inside IR35 contractor - you're engaged through an intermediary to provide services. You're paid PAYE, but via an umbrella company, not the company you do work for.

Outside IR35 contractor - you're engaged directly to provide services. You invoice the company directly for the services you provide through your own company.

@WYorkshireRose

Incorrect - a casual worker is paid through company payroll but does not have the same employment rights as they are a 'worker' not an 'employee'

No it isn't

Yes I think this is what I am. Do you know what this means in terms of sick pay?

https://www.acas.org.uk/checking-sick-pay/statutory-sick-pay-ssp#:~:text=the%20eligibility%20criteria.-,Eligibility%20criteria,re%20usually%20required%20to%20work

Aren't workers entitled to statutory holiday though? And OP says she isn't?

Tbh OP your status is very unclear here so I'm not sure how anyone can help

Yes, if someone is classed as a worker they are entitled to paid holiday. This suggests OP is being treated as self-employed, in which case there is no entitlement to SSP.

I don’t think you will be entitled to ssp unfortunately this is why being self employed your pay is usually higher to compensate

Assuming that you are self-employed, you can claim Employment & Support Allowance (ESA) yourself - but whether you qualify for it is another matter.

Would HMRC be able to tell you by phone?