Closing written submission to judge. Is it available to the public? If so, when?

[Bouffe]

I've been taking an interest in a employment tribunal involving someone who seems to have been in a similar position to my own. The outcome of it may determine whether I use the law to remedy my own situation.

The case concluded a few weeks ago and judgment isn't expected this year. I attended court on a couple of days to try and familiarise myself with the kind of argument that might be used against me were I to pursue my complaint. I got talking to another observer who turned out to be peripherally (personally, not professionally) involved in the case. Last week he contacted me to say that he's had sight of the defendant's 80+ page written submission and had seen a comment/ argument that seemed particularly pertinent to my situation. I'd very much like to see it myself, but apparently it's illegal.

At what point, if any, do closing submissions become available to the public? How would I access it? Thanks in advance.

I’m not sure they do. It might contain personal info. Some tribunal decisions are published of course. Personally I would not rely on other submissions. Look at the CAB website for great advice. Get a solicitor and submit info based on your experience and the position that’s affected you. Relying on what others say isn’t the best way forward. Work through what the CAB says: it’s very good advice.

Thanks for responding. I'm not just relying on what others say or on other submissions and I've already taken legal advice.

I'm glad you've found the CAB useful. They are great for things like benefits problems but when I tried to consult them regarding a legal/ contractual issue they gave me very poor advice.

I'd like to see the written submission because it would seem to contain a legal line of argument that wasn't clearly articulated in court but which may, if it's correct and accepted by the judge, affect my case.

The CAB website has lots and lots of detailed info about this! Not an office with volunteers.

Thanks but as I said, I've already consulted a specialist lawyer on this issue and am aware of the complexity of the situation and the procedure I need to follow should I decide to go ahead.

I therefore think you stuck with your own advice and don’t need to see what anyone else said. It’s about you and your case. Surely your solicitor is putting your case together and knows what is important to include?

You need to see the judgement, not the closing submission. The judgement will tell you all you need to know. You can refer to the judgement in your own case. You cannot refer to the closing submission.

Is there a reason for that? I'm interested in the idea that there can be a case held in open court where people can observe and think they've seen the full extent of the case, but that the written submission can contain arguments and assertions that weren't used in court. If the judgment is made on the basis of an argument in a written submission then will the judge mention which argument and what it was about that argument that persuaded them in the judgment?

Sorry if I seem obsessed. It seems strange that a barrister who only asked half a dozen apparently fruitless questions in court and whose summing-up was quite brief and included what one would have expected to hear, can then make some extreme statements and arguments in the written submission.

Whether I decide to go ahead with my case will depend on how this one turns out – probably. I'm talking about having to find around £15k to see it through. The basics of this case are very similar to my own (not hugely unusual in an ET) and so are is quite a lot of the other stuff — management and HR's handling is uncannily similar. If plaintiff wins my employer's lawyers may decide to save time and hassle and settle with me.

The judgement will set out any relevant submissions, at least in outline, and explain why the judge has accepted them (if he/she has). The judgement and the judge's reasoning in that judgement sets a precedent which future cases will follow if relevant, which is why you can refer to it.

Are all cases published @prh47bridge ? Certainly family court ones are not.

You should be able to find any employment tribunal decision at Employment tribunal decisions - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

If it is only first instance Tribunal it won’t set any precedent though. That will only happen if either side appeals to the Employment Appeals Tribunal.

It is not a binding precedent, no, but a previous judgement can still be referred to and may help. If the relevant facts are similar, the tribunal may be willing to make similar findings.

Thanks — yes, I understand that a first tier ET doesn't set a precedent.

I've managed to obtain some more information and have taken advice and will be lodging my claim.

Interesting that written submissions aren't publicly available. It doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm unclear why you think they should be. The witness statements and bundle aren't usually made public either. What matters is the decision.

Presumably you work in the law, but for those of us who don't then being able to see the written submissions might give an idea of the details of the argument that will be used against our cases. Having watched this ET (admittedly not all of it) the thrust of the defendant's argument wasn't actually clear: there was no narrative, as it were, just a number of questions whose intention was lost on me (and apparently lost on the plaintiff). I would hope that sight of the written submission might help me understand better.

There should be enough in the decision to allow you to understand the arguments that were used. The judgement will normally set out the arguments and explain why they were accepted or rejected.