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Legal matters

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Original poster

Can my cousin re- enter the UK?

19 replies

Hididi · 07/11/2023 09:23

21 years ago my French cousin was living and working in London and he did something stupid. He got drunk with his friends and after meeting some girls in a bar, decided to leave with one of their handbags as a drunken dare. They then dumped it in a local park. Police tracked them down easily as they worked locally and he along with another boy were arrested.

They were charged and a lawyer was appointed for them and they plead guilty to taking the bag. They were not made aware by the lawyer that the girls added that the bag contained £5000 cash. This wasn’t true but made their crime worse.

They were sentenced to 3 weeks in jail whilst awaiting trial and my cousin made bail after 7 days. His lawyer advised him that he risked being sentenced to 3-6 months in jail. My cousin got scared and ran back to France. His friend who never made bail, attended the second trial and was sentenced to 4 months which he served.

This boy and my cousin never spoke again and he has since passed away.

My cousin is now married and a father and has been living a normal and crime free life in France. He wants to take his family to visit London.

MY QUESTION- can he return to the UK given he skipped trial 20 years ago?

He contacted his lawyer from back then but he now works abroad and cant help. He contacted The old firm but they have shut down. He contacted various law firms in the UK who cant seem to find the answer for him.
He found a company called ACRO ( Criminal Records Office) who states he was found not guilty at the trial but he isn’t sure what this document is worth and also doesn’t understand why he would have been found not guilty.

Who can he contact who can tell him for sure where he stands before he considers coming back to the UK?

OP posts:

FSTraining · 07/11/2023 10:27

If the girls claimed there was £5k in the bag, this would have had to have been proven beyond reasonable doubt. If it was not true, I am not sure how the prosecution would have been able to do this. The sentencing also seems to have been in line with the magistrate's court and in line with a summary theft offence so I wonder if this £5k claim was ever proven?

My hunch is that it is not in the public interest to pursue your cousin 20 years after committing a summary offence. However, coming to the UK would carry some risk unless he can be certain he was not guilty. An enhanced DBS check might be a good idea?

Original poster

Hididi · 07/11/2023 10:44

@FSTraining I think he was very young and totally clueless to be honest.
He has tried to get an enhanced dbs but you need a UK address. He has emailed multiple times trying to get past this but got nowhere. Any other ideas of how he could get one?

OP posts:

Plexie · 07/11/2023 10:48

Skipping bail is an offence in itself. Maximum sentence is 12 months if the original case was in a Crown Court, or a maximum of 3 months if Magistrates' Court.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/outlines/failure-to-surrender-to-bail/
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/failure-to-surrender-to-bail/

I suppose there's a risk that he'll be flagged on entering the UK and detained by border staff. Ultimately it will be up to the CPS to decide whether to proceed with charges. I don't think anyone can advise him that he definitely won't be prosecuted.

BrimfulOfMash · 07/11/2023 10:52

How can he have been found Not Guilty if he plead Guilty? How can he have plead anything if he fled before he went to court? He was presumably held in remand until trial rather than sentenced to 3 weeks before trial?

His poor friend who went to prison for 4 months.

Now married he might have done better to change his surname to his wife’s.

Motnight · 07/11/2023 11:04

I don't think that your cousin is being completely honest with you.

Regardless he should seek legal advice.

NugatoryMatters · 07/11/2023 11:09

He’s very clearly not being entirely honest with you about this stuff.

Topee · 07/11/2023 11:09

It would be unusual for your cousin’s trial to proceed in his absence I would have thought.

Pinkdelight3 · 07/11/2023 11:10

Yeah it sounds like a very fudged up story. The short version - he stole a handbag, got caught then skipped bail - sounds much more plausible than the one coloured with the scared, clueless, did crime for a joke version so I'd be less disingenuous about it if I were him and own his mistakes. He could re-enter and take his chances, and if the crime shows up, then he can deal with it and make his case. Otherwise it's just more evasion and he hasn't really grown up that much. If he doesn't want to deal with it and can't get clear advice from a lawyer, he could try asking the embassy over there what their take would be.

Topee · 07/11/2023 11:10

If he plead guilty then why was there a trial?

CesareBorgia · 07/11/2023 11:15

He committed a crime and didn't do the time. What the handbag contained is a red herring - imagine the awful feelings of the woman when finding her handbag had gone! No sympathy for him whatsoever.

TentChristmas · 07/11/2023 11:15

Yeh your cousin isn’t telling you the whole truth. He wasn’t sentenced to 3 weeks before trial he was remanded. You don’t get remanded for stealing a handbag, it was something far more serious. He pled guilty so there wouldn’t have been a trial. The fact that his friend didn’t get bailed and got 4 months also suggests it wasn’t just stealing a handbag. Sorry.

Why would he risk coming here just for a holiday? I think it sounds like he’s panicking someone is going f to find d out and that’s why he wants to know what is recorded.

Pinkdelight3 · 07/11/2023 11:20

Kinda cheeky to contact the old lawyer for help too, when they were appointed by the system he skipped out on. He needs to pay for proper legal advice now and be honest with them, because as PPs say, this really isn't adding up.

LinesAndDot · 07/11/2023 11:26

I’m a lawyer, but not in England.
A uni acquaintance did something similar - went to the US for a study abroad term, was charged with a minor offence, but missed the court date as he had returned to our country by then. 20 years later he was well regarded in his field and invited to lecture in the US, but needed to find out his status - was a warrant issued for his arrest for non-appearance at court?

He hired local lawyers, who then reached out to the US prosecutors to find out what had happened or what needed to happen to sort it out. From memory it was all agreed and he flew over early, was detained at the airport, handed himself in, taken to court, where everyone was aware he was coming back and the sentencing proceeding occurred. He was given a non-custodial sentenced he then continued on with his business in the US.

Different countries, but I would advise your cousin to do the same.

LinesAndDot · 07/11/2023 11:28

I’ll add - he started with local (our country) lawyers, and they did a lot of the leg work, but ultimately they hired lawyers in the US too, who liaised with the prosecution and represented him in court.

LinesAndDot · 07/11/2023 11:33

Also - it took months to sort out and he turned down a few lecture opportunities in that time. It will take timE and money - or at least it did for my acquaintance.

Original poster

Hididi · 07/11/2023 11:37

@LinesAndDot ah finally some constructive advice thank you!
He has contacted multiple lawyers to try and get to the bottom of it but no one would 'take it on'. Based on what you say it is because it is quite tricky.
I will get him to keep trying via the solicitor route. Have a great day!

OP posts:

BadSkiingMum · 07/11/2023 11:52

Surely the only thing to do is for him to take a separate solo trip across the channel and voluntarily present himself to the police on arrival?

pulka · 07/11/2023 12:07

Personally, I'd stay well out of it if I were you, you don't have the full picture to be asking for realistic and sound advice. I'd be very wary of what you've been told. It sounds very much like your cousin has not been truthful with you about this crime, the proceedings and the outcome. This is for him to sort and solve and not drag any trusting family members into.

It's not usual to be found 'Not guilty' after a guilty plea, especially when the defendant has skipped bail and left the country. He may have been discharged but this only usually happens with mitigating circumstances like a someone shoplifting food for their children etc. A custodial sentence is the norm for this kind of crime, so I'd wager he's not even told you the real charges bought against him. A lovely bit of minimising and victim blaming for these poor girls who were robbed too. And being 'very young' is not an excuse for any of this. We've all been young. Like me, I bet you managed to get by without stealing any handbags.

FSTraining · 07/11/2023 12:11

TentChristmas · 07/11/2023 11:15

Why would he risk coming here just for a holiday? I think it sounds like he’s panicking someone is going f to find d out and that’s why he wants to know what is recorded.

Not necessarily. The friend might have been an habitual thief with a criminal record and the cousin of the OP was not for example. Thus the friend might have had more aggravating circumstances when it came to sentencing (and also may not have plead guilty).

However, you are right insofar as a solicitor will struggle to know what would happen on his arrival in the UK because the nature of his offending is not entirely clear.

One thing I can say though is that there is currently a judicial steer to avoid custodial sentences whenever possible because the prisons are full (the guidance is generally anything under 2 years, non violent, avoid prison). Skipping bail and the original offence are much more likely to result in a suspended sentence. However, the cousin might find themselves detained until trial, it's impossible to say.

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