Ex Is Threatening 50/50 Childcare Split

User111111111111111 · 2023-11-06T22:09:57+00:00

I am divorced from my husband. I have been having the kids at least 4 nights a week since I moved out of the family home 8 months ago and we don't have an official childcare arrangement, only email chains of what we have decided. I have broached the subject of maintenance but he has said he will have them 50% of the time as "I will not get any more money out of him". It's causing me a lot of stress as now I'm thinking he only wants them as much as he's having them so that I won't ask for maintenance. I am currently looking into mediaiton. I don't think he would be able to get 50:50 as he has booked holidays for the last few months which has meant I have had the children for 5+ nights in a row which has been the catalyst for me asking for maintenance. His stance seems to be that I want the kids more so I should be grateful for this time with them. The situation is really stressing me out and is having an impact on my health, not sure where to go from here...

BigFatLiar · 06/11/2023 22:12

If he wants 50/50 then it's up to him to organise his life to cope.

TizerorFizz · 07/11/2023 09:26

@User111111111111111 The most usual split is 5 nights out of 14. This recognises work commitments and allows for one long weekend every fortnight.

Your strong argument for this is: school collection and pick up is well organised between parents. No surprises and last minute changes.

Make sure DC come first in all arrangements. They are not possessions but have needs. So what are their needs? What do they want? When do they see friends and go to clubs? It’s better to have a single resident parent and have a base at one home. Holidays could be 50/50 but work arrangements are important when deciding this.

He wants 50/50 to avoid child maintenance. You need to work out the most stable arrangement for the DC. Then suggest mediation. If not, go to court. But never go forward without a plan that works for DC. Place them at the centre of everything but not as a possession.

FSTraining · 07/11/2023 10:16

TizerorFizz · 07/11/2023 09:26

@User111111111111111 The most usual split is 5 nights out of 14. This recognises work commitments and allows for one long weekend every fortnight.

Your strong argument for this is: school collection and pick up is well organised between parents. No surprises and last minute changes.

Make sure DC come first in all arrangements. They are not possessions but have needs. So what are their needs? What do they want? When do they see friends and go to clubs? It’s better to have a single resident parent and have a base at one home. Holidays could be 50/50 but work arrangements are important when deciding this.

He wants 50/50 to avoid child maintenance. You need to work out the most stable arrangement for the DC. Then suggest mediation. If not, go to court. But never go forward without a plan that works for DC. Place them at the centre of everything but not as a possession.

Some of this is true and some of this is opinion. It's true 5 nights out of 14 is common. It's a matter of opinion whether a single resident parent is best.

It's also an opinion that he wants 50/50 to avoid child maintenance; it's equally plausible he wants the same access to his children as the wife and the wife does not want this primarily for financial reasons. A court isn't going to make its decisions based on either opinion but on what they determine is in the children's best interests.

The status quo will often be an important indicator of where to start. However (and this was relevant to my case) it is not uncommon to find the higher earner has been pushed into a "provider" role and given little choice in that respect. For example, they might have excelled at their careers whilst their partner has not developed a career at all, giving them little choice but to be the provider during the marriage. Some degree of stepping back from this role after divorce in order to be a more present parent is not uncommon in divorce (maybe not 50/50 but maybe a 5 or 6 night arrangement per fortnight).

However, in this case the father also seems to like holidays on his own which suggests he's not as bothered about being present as he perhaps ought to be and might count against him.

BigFatLiar · 07/11/2023 10:24

However, in this case the father also seems to like holidays on his own which suggests he's not as bothered about being present as he perhaps ought to be and might count against him

But he'll still have one week in two to have his holiday alone. Come school holidays maybe they'll go with him, they could end up on holidays with dad and holidays with mum. Something for them both to talk about.

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Morecladding · 07/11/2023 10:28

Has he asked to have them 50/50 right now, or only at some distant point in the future when you ask for money? If he seems happy with the status quo now, leave it at that, let him do the leg work finding a mediator and go through CMS based on current circumstances.

FSTraining · 07/11/2023 10:31

BigFatLiar · 07/11/2023 10:24

However, in this case the father also seems to like holidays on his own which suggests he's not as bothered about being present as he perhaps ought to be and might count against him

But he'll still have one week in two to have his holiday alone. Come school holidays maybe they'll go with him, they could end up on holidays with dad and holidays with mum. Something for them both to talk about.

Sure, that could happen. Looking at it dispassionately, the challenge for the court would be determining whether the father only wants 50/50 to avoid maintenance and cannot or will not do it or whether the mother only wants more than 50/50 to receive maintenance which is not a good reason for more than 50/50. Then factoring this into its decision as to what is in the children's best interests.

It's not entirely implausible - and this is only an example - that they decide 50/50 is appropriate, the mother should work full time but the father can also afford to pay some spousal maintenance - for a couple of years at least - as he is the higher earner and is not having to pay child maintenance. Obviously they will look at child access and finances separately but this could be one outcome in the round.

Ibravedaflood · 07/11/2023 10:33

I bought 2 cheap calanders.. Wrote up 6 months of our new arrangement.. Handed 1 to exh. Write on clubs /activities - with costs. Dentist /Dr appointments. Any up and coming party invites. School assembly /concert /church /.. Play date schedule that dc currently has..clothes and shoe sizes so he can stock up a wardrobe.. . Hand it over with a smile. And await The Big Excuse Email. Keep all replies..

Yogibearspicnic · 07/11/2023 10:33

Also having 50/50 does not automatically mean he won't have to pay CM. It goes to resident parent (receives child benefit usually I believe) based on how many nights non-resident has. Even if averages out at 3.5 days/week then would still pay. Have a play with CMS calculator online and try it.

meandtheboy · 07/11/2023 10:38

Exactly @Ibravedaflood , it's amazing how fast they can backpedal when they understand the reality of the situation. My XH was horrified to discover he'd need to pay £5 a day for after-school or breakfast club for example, and suddenly having the DC more wasn't quite so interesting.

Ibravedaflood · 07/11/2023 10:39

Spell it out dc's stuff would be staying in your home including tech. Or trust me he will keep it there to try and make his home more appealing.... My exh sold anything dc took there from my home including clothes I had bought. If they brought tech I kept it locked away. Dc were too young and I wasn't paying for repairs. Ds 7 had a tablet, phone, laptop and games console... Madness when he never actually fed them or had electric at times...

FSTraining · 07/11/2023 12:21

Yogibearspicnic · 07/11/2023 10:33

Also having 50/50 does not automatically mean he won't have to pay CM. It goes to resident parent (receives child benefit usually I believe) based on how many nights non-resident has. Even if averages out at 3.5 days/week then would still pay. Have a play with CMS calculator online and try it.

This is wrong. 50/50 based on nights means no CMS. The calculator explains this, but may present a different result.

Original poster

User111111111111111 · 07/11/2023 12:39

@Morecladding

He has said if I push for maintenance he will have them 50:50. I think it's a threat to be honest as he regularly goes away at the moment (he put a week and a couple of weekends in my calendar without even checking with me first earlier in the year). So he would struggle to commit to 50:50. He knows how much I want the kids so is using it against me so he doesn't have to pay maintenance in my opinion.

OP posts:

Original poster

User111111111111111 · 07/11/2023 12:48

FSTraining · 07/11/2023 10:31

Sure, that could happen. Looking at it dispassionately, the challenge for the court would be determining whether the father only wants 50/50 to avoid maintenance and cannot or will not do it or whether the mother only wants more than 50/50 to receive maintenance which is not a good reason for more than 50/50. Then factoring this into its decision as to what is in the children's best interests.

It's not entirely implausible - and this is only an example - that they decide 50/50 is appropriate, the mother should work full time but the father can also afford to pay some spousal maintenance - for a couple of years at least - as he is the higher earner and is not having to pay child maintenance. Obviously they will look at child access and finances separately but this could be one outcome in the round.

Show quote history

I have not asked for maintenance up until this point and have always had them at least 4 nights a week since I moved out in Feb. But he has started taking the mick for example going on holiday with his girlfriend and not seeing the kids for 9 nights. He gave me a cheap bottle of Prosecco when he came back, he probably gave the person that looked after his cat the same 🙄.
We have divorced and all finances have already been sorted as this needed to happen to decide who would live where. I accepted him paying me monthly instalments for part of the financial order so he wouldn't have to sell any assets but he's looking at this as a monthly income for me from him which I think is the main reason he's saying I'm not going to get any more money from him.

OP posts:

meandtheboy · 07/11/2023 12:50

Child maintenance is part of the financial settlement, but instalment payments in lieu of selling assets is not maintenance.

Original poster

User111111111111111 · 07/11/2023 12:52

meandtheboy · 07/11/2023 12:50

Child maintenance is part of the financial settlement, but instalment payments in lieu of selling assets is not maintenance.

Yes exactly in my opinion that side of it is completely separate. It said in the initial letter to him the solicitors would only be dealing with financial matters not child arrangements. I had hoped at that point we would be able to sort it out between ourselves.

OP posts:

TizerorFizz · 07/11/2023 13:27

When DC looks at this as a barrister, what’s best for Dc is a paramount. Not 50/50 based on splitting up an asset! Therefore what is reasonable based on needs. If there are threats about money to push for 50/50 that’s not asking for a split based on DCs needs. If Ex cannot facilitate 50/50, the OPs rep in court would argue strongly that the needs of DC are what matters and then propose how these are met. Just because a parent wants “equality” it doesn’t mean they can actually deliver it and fail to see it’s not about them. So work out the best schedule and try and agree that via mediation. Money is separate and no child arrangements should be made so a parent avoids maintenance.

HeavenCANTwait · 07/11/2023 13:57

Go through CMS - you will get your money because you've had them more and you can prove it

Let him take you to court (he may not!)

If he does go to court then you can say you've had them more, he has holidays booked and it won't work.

If he does 'win' then you will have to go back to court if he doesn't follow through

NEVER say you want them more - that's how they get to threaten you

EVliving · 07/11/2023 17:23

My CMS took 3 weeks from start to finish. Just fill the forms out and let him take you to court. Represent yourself. Cost is £256, so let him take you (its not scary). He will need to show how he will cover the child arrangements. Dont be bullied. Good luck.

TizerorFizz · 07/11/2023 18:24

You also need to explain how it’s best for DC to be with you the most to maintain what Dc needs. It’s not about splitting an asset. Therefore why is a proposal for Dc to spend more time with you, better for Dc? This can be your availability, ease of playdates, nearer to school, more consistent parenting style, easier for Dc to be organised for school etc.

RandomMess · 07/11/2023 18:59

You can claim CMS now based on what has happened to date who you can evidence. If he starts have them 50:50 and does so more 6 months or so he can go back to CMS.

I would just put the claim in 🤷🏽‍♀️

Sloelydoesit · 08/11/2023 08:45

I have a 50/50 arrangement with my child. No payment is made currently either side however I have just gone through the CMS calculator and apparently I should pay £88 a week! I did not know this as I also assumed 50/50 meant none due.

I do however buy all clothes, school uniform, school trips (including residentials) school meals and other big ticket items.

TizerorFizz · 08/11/2023 19:39

The parent who earns more should pay more in my view. That’s regardless of split.

flowergirl2020 · 08/11/2023 19:46

Yogibearspicnic · 07/11/2023 10:33

Also having 50/50 does not automatically mean he won't have to pay CM. It goes to resident parent (receives child benefit usually I believe) based on how many nights non-resident has. Even if averages out at 3.5 days/week then would still pay. Have a play with CMS calculator online and try it.

This is incorrect. Regulation 50 comes into play now which means it's not based solely on number of nights but on how 'day to day care' is shared and whether this is equal. CMS will often advise incorrectly as if this doesn't exist because they are poorly trained. A child can do a 4 nights 3 nights split between parents but if the parent with 3 nights is providing the same level of care (think clubs, hobbies, homework, play dates, school etc) and they are literally just being spiffed back to the other parent at tea time to get that extra 4th night in for CMS, this can be contested via regulation 50 usually via tribunal and then no CMS is due.

Sloelydoesit · 08/11/2023 19:56

Ok, that's interesting. I don't think my ex would actually ask anyway but I am happy to pay more and never even questioned it as is fair.
I also carry the mental load too with regards to organising and buying !