Can a Mum take her child out the country without Dads consent?

[WDTABNONONO]

We have a friend let's call him Matt. Matt is married to someone originally from an African country but they are both living in the UK.

Matts wife Sara is pregnant but really struggling with no family in the UK and limited friends.

Can Sara take the baby back to her country of origin legally if it becomes too hard for her here without Matts permission?

Not once the child is born without Matt or a courts permission.

What are you basing that on? I’ve never been asked for fathers permission proof and have traveled with DC from 3 months.

Legally no if he's on the birth certificate and has PR. She'd need a court order stating the baby lives with her in order to take baby out of the country without permission from dad as she has permission from the court. In reality, I've taken DS abroad, his dad has taken DS abroad and so far neither of us have been asked to provide evidence that the other parent has given permission for DS to leave the country.

If she did try to take him, I think dad's options are basically limited to calling the police/passport control and trying to get baby's passport flagged so they're stopped at the border but I've never had to do that so not sure 🤷‍♀️

Strictly speaking that's correct but whether she would, in practice, be stopped at the Border is much less clear cut.

I have never really understood the realities and practicalities of this. There's the 'theory' of it, and then there's what happens in reality when solo-travelling parents leave the country with their infants/children for family visits outside the jurisdiction of the UK (and Common Travel Area). Some parents seem to get stopped and questioned, most don't.

I've also heard (on MN) of UKBA & airport security asking to see permission letters from the other parent, that quite frankly could so easily be faked.

I'd advise anyone who has real concerns to apply for prohibited steps order.

Can I ask what support Matt and you as his friend are giving Mum to help her feel settled and secure here? You'd be far better investing your energy into that than asking random strangers on the Internet for advice about a legal scenario that might never occur.

I know of a family where dad tried to leave the country with the children and was removed from the plane prior to take off. This required mum having the support of the police and social services - and I think possibly an embassy?
It was a huge amount of work and stress, and was very touch and go until the last minute - it isn't just happening routinely. I think dad did then manage to remove them from the country a few months later without mothers consent.

I also know of a different child with a passport flagged by a court order not to be taken out the country - it didn't get picked up until they'd flown out of the UK already and were trying to board a connecting flight in another European country where the child was then separated from the parents by police or border control.

I travelled a lot on my own with the kids when married and I was never questioned once. Then I got divorced, continued to travel a lot on my own with the kids and was still never questioned.

My husband was ALWAYS questioned, both when married then divorced.

Which African country? South Africa for example is quite strict about consent forms from the non travelling parent.

The law. The OP asked if the baby can be taken back legally without Matts permission, and the answer is no.

Of course, in reality many parents don’t get questioned, particularly if it is the mother travelling with her child.

The law is that you need the consent of everyone with PR or a court order to take a child out of the country. A Child Arrangements Order naming the mother as someone with whom the child lives would allow her to take the child out of the country for up to one month. If she takes the child out of the country without either consent or a court order, she is committing the criminal offence of child abduction.

Of course, as we can see on this thread, many parents take their child out of the country without encountering any problems, despite not having consent or a court order. That doesn't stop it being an offence.

we live abroad. ii travel a lot with my 3 children who all have a different name to me. not once have i ever been asked for permission from the father when leaving uk. I've been asked a lot coming back in. my kids have been asked who i am. nothing major but i don't think leaving uk is an issue in all honesty unless there is a block on the passports.

We offer to meet up with her once a wee especially another friend of mine as she has no kids.

She's quite reserved though so doesn't like to go out too much which to be honest as she's heavily pregnant I don't blame her for at all.