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Original poster

Friend's ex suing for items friend doesn't have and a made up loan.

39 replies

EmmKay13 · 20/10/2023 18:03

Hello. Posting on behalf of friend with their permission. Hoping someone can advise.

SHORT VERSION: Ex-partner demanding items that their ex doesn't have and money not owed.

LONG VERSION: My friend and their partner of 15 years split up 3 months ago (not married, no kids, both living in my friend's house). A year before break up, they weren't getting on and partner went to stay with parents for a couple of weeks, then ended up staying with them for months, which caused rows on the phone and they stopped paying rent to my friend. Even though all their belongings were still in friend's house and partner wasn't paying rent to parents. They just stopped paying for months to make a point / be spiteful.

About two months before break up, friend and partner were on better terms and even talking about partner coming back home and partner sent my friend £2k in lieu of rent (not that the £2k was even close to what they had missed paying).

Anyway, very long story short, the harmony didn't last and partner called quits on relationship and my friend asked them to come back to collect all their belongings. Partner replied, "Do what you like with my stuff. Burn it for all I care!"

I told friend to dump / sell ex's stuff, but friend decided to be the bigger person and spent an exhausting week going through the entire house and packing ex-partner's belongings into boxes. Ex-partner's brother collected all the boxes. There was so much stuff that they used a large van to pick it up.

Friend thought that was end of it. They didn't speak to each other again. Friend started getting on with life and looking to sell house and move for a fresh start.

Then recently a letter arrived, friend given 14 days to reply. Ex-partner has gone to a solicitor and demanding "missing items" from their belongings silly things like DVDs, clothes, frying pans, tools, books, nothing of any value, and also demanding the £2k "loan" they supposedly lent my friend!

Friend has been through entire house and everything of ex-partner's was packed up and sent off in ex-partner's brother's van. There's nothing left in the house that belongs to ex-partner.

They also certainly did not borrow £2k off ex either. Friend has bank statements to show that ex stopped paying rent for months, until the £2k token payment.

Anyway, friend panicked and ignored letter, and now been advised they are being taken to small claims court. Friend worried / incredibly stressed.

How can friend prove that they sent everything back and that the £2k absolutely wasn't a loan? Orvis onus of proof on ex? Friend didn't make an itinerary of the items as there was just so much stuff, but did get pics of all the boxes they had packed and filmed the boxes going into van. They actually only took pics and video just to send to me to show that it was all sorted. They also still have message from ex saying to burn the stuff as they didn't care.

I'm really angry, my friend has worked SO bloody hard after split, not just in their job, but around the house and on themselves as they were understandably devastated by split. Friend thankfully realises ex has done them a favour, as friend has been so much happier since dusting themselves down and starting to enjoy life again. Friend was in a good place when the letters arrived and it's really set friend back mentally due to the worry and having ex tormenting them.

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

OP posts:
Original poster
EmmKay13 · 20/10/2023 18:06

Title should say "sueing", not "dying". Hoping MN will amend.

OP posts:
Loverofoxbowlakes · 20/10/2023 18:07

Unless there is any documented evidence that it was a loan, including repayment agreement, ex doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Original poster
EmmKay13 · 20/10/2023 18:15

Thanks @Loverofoxbowlakes, I said same about the loan. I said I've seen enough Judge Rinder to know that! 😁 Friend is worried as no proof it wasn't a loan either, other than bank statements showing no rent coming in for months before ex got their belongings.

And again, as friend can't return items (as they don't have them) they worry they will be sued for value of said items. And legal fees etc.

I'm honestly fuming. I know the ex is being nasty as they are surprised / ego-bruised that friend did not once contact them or beg them to get back together. Friend simply held head high and got on with life. I know for a fact ex will hate to think my friend is doing better without them.

OP posts:
strawberry2017 · 20/10/2023 18:24

Has she got proof that he told her to get rid of his things? Was it said verbally or writing?

Myyearmytime · 20/10/2023 18:24

Wouldn't
there need to receipts for everything he says he bought ?
I would just go to small claim court and not worry.

Original poster
EmmKay13 · 20/10/2023 18:26

It's a voice note on WhatsApp. After friend was dumped over phone, friend sent voice note asking ex to come and get belongings and ex literally said, "Burn my fucking stuff for all I care."

OP posts:
Original poster
EmmKay13 · 20/10/2023 18:30

No idea if ex needs receipts. No idea who burden of proof is on. But hope it's the ex. As we can't think of any way to prove friend doesn't have items, unless judge came over for tea and a poke around in the house!

It's honestly ridiculous. Friend's self esteem was driven into ground by the ex, the thought of court and seeing ex again cripples them with fear. They now realise just how vile ex was and is.

Some of our mates say friend should counter sue for missed rent and storage costs of their belongings the whole time ex lived with parents. But friend just wants this to all go away.

OP posts:
Mabelface · 20/10/2023 18:36

Unless she's already received official court document, it's all bluster. A solicitor will send a letter saying what you want, it doesn't mean it's right.

Original poster
EmmKay13 · 20/10/2023 18:38

Thank you Mabel. I'll check if it was a summons or letter stating intent.

OP posts:
nc14 · 20/10/2023 18:40

Did your friend receive a letter before claim? If so, she should calmly go through each point and respond. She can then also use this letter if the court claim proceeds.

Re the loan, she should state he paid x rent every month/ week (whatever it was) and then didn’t pay between x date and x date, so the £2,000 was in lieu of rent owed. If she wants to be bold, she could ask for the remaining amount owed.

Re the personal items, I’d just dispute this. His brother took everything. That should be the end of it. You could ask for proof of ownership but if he has it he still can’t prove his brother didn’t take those items.

IncompleteSenten · 20/10/2023 18:43

The burden of proof is on him not her.

She should call his bluff. Tell him to go ahead.

Original poster
EmmKay13 · 20/10/2023 18:43

Yes @nc14 they had a letter first. But everyone told friend to ignore it, as ex is talking out of arse and just looking for a reaction. I'll pass your comments on.

OP posts:
Original poster
EmmKay13 · 20/10/2023 18:44

@IncompleteSenten thank you. I was inclined to think that's the case and said as much. But I think friend needs to hear it from other sources.

OP posts:
nc14 · 20/10/2023 19:00

@EmmKay13 I’d definitely suggest she considers claiming from him the missed rent payments. She can establish a pattern of him making these payments and then the absence of them. She can probably also evidence his brother collecting his belongings. If his belongings were still in her home, he should have been paying rent or storage. The threat of a potential counter claim might scare him off.

Original poster
EmmKay13 · 20/10/2023 19:03

@nc14 I said to friend that if it even gets to court, any sane judge would think that if belongings were so important to ex, then they should have attended in person when my friend invited them to come and collect it all.

That coupled with voice message saying to burn it!

OP posts:
vivainsomnia · 21/10/2023 17:13

So he was paying her rent on a house she owns? If so, why would he continue to pay 'rent' after he left? You can't gave a legal contract for rental with a partner. So he wouldn't be made to pay her rent.

Saying that, a judge is certainly not going to care about pots and pans, so unless he is talking about big TVs, Xbox, recently bought etc... this isn't a matter to worry about.

As for the loan, it will be up to him to convince the judge it was a loan and not given for whatever reason (other than rent).

prh47bridge · 21/10/2023 18:30

Burden of proof is on ex. Ex doesn't have to prove things beyond reasonable doubt, but they have to convince the judge that, on the balance of probabilities, your friend has the items claimed and that the £2k was a loan. I don't think your friend has anything to worry about.

Spirallingdownwards · 21/10/2023 18:34

nc14 · 20/10/2023 18:40

Did your friend receive a letter before claim? If so, she should calmly go through each point and respond. She can then also use this letter if the court claim proceeds.

Re the loan, she should state he paid x rent every month/ week (whatever it was) and then didn’t pay between x date and x date, so the £2,000 was in lieu of rent owed. If she wants to be bold, she could ask for the remaining amount owed.

Re the personal items, I’d just dispute this. His brother took everything. That should be the end of it. You could ask for proof of ownership but if he has it he still can’t prove his brother didn’t take those items.

Do not do as advised in this letter.

Simply reply your brother collected all your belongings. You have never loaned me any money so there is nothing to repay.

That's all that is needed. He needs to prove there was a loan, which there wasn't so he has no proof.

nc14 · 21/10/2023 18:38

@Spirallingdownwards It’s more likely to prolong the argument if she doesn’t robustly respond in my opinion. He can also likely prove he sent her £2,000, which is not in the normal pattern of payments, so if she doesn’t address it I think it will look odd.

Morechocmorechoc · 21/10/2023 18:40

She should respond with amount of rent owed. She'll have to grow a pair I'm afraid. Can't let him bully her.

Original poster
EmmKay13 · 21/10/2023 19:04

vivainsomnia · 21/10/2023 17:13

So he was paying her rent on a house she owns? If so, why would he continue to pay 'rent' after he left? You can't gave a legal contract for rental with a partner. So he wouldn't be made to pay her rent.

Saying that, a judge is certainly not going to care about pots and pans, so unless he is talking about big TVs, Xbox, recently bought etc... this isn't a matter to worry about.

As for the loan, it will be up to him to convince the judge it was a loan and not given for whatever reason (other than rent).

Ex didn't leave as in move out, but packed a bag to stay with folks for what was meant to be a couple of weeks if they were renting a house or room they'd still have pay rent while away, especially with all their belongings bar a few clothes still being in the property.

And thank you, I'm inclined to think the same regarding judge on belongings and supposed loan.

OP posts:
Original poster
EmmKay13 · 21/10/2023 19:05

I know @Morechocmorechoc. It's just really shaken my friend to the core that ex would have the audacity to pile this stress on them to be spiteful. I think it's really made friend realise what a vile individual ex really was / is and cemented their resolve that ex did them a favour by leaving.

OP posts:
Original poster
EmmKay13 · 21/10/2023 19:07

Spirallingdownwards · 21/10/2023 18:34

Do not do as advised in this letter.

Simply reply your brother collected all your belongings. You have never loaned me any money so there is nothing to repay.

That's all that is needed. He needs to prove there was a loan, which there wasn't so he has no proof.

Show quote history

Actually, I think you're right. Keep it simple and keep their powder dry on extra information if it makes it to court.

OP posts:
Spirallingdownwards · 21/10/2023 19:08

nc14 · 21/10/2023 18:38

@Spirallingdownwards It’s more likely to prolong the argument if she doesn’t robustly respond in my opinion. He can also likely prove he sent her £2,000, which is not in the normal pattern of payments, so if she doesn’t address it I think it will look odd.

It weakens her argument to attempt to justify any payments made to her when he is the one having to prove its a loan. If he is that much of a twat to sue and tries to allege the £2k is a loan at that point she defends on the basis that it was part payment towards rent.

It is more robust to say you have had your stuff and there was no loan. I assume you are not legally qualified.

Original poster
EmmKay13 · 21/10/2023 19:09

nc14 · 21/10/2023 18:38

@Spirallingdownwards It’s more likely to prolong the argument if she doesn’t robustly respond in my opinion. He can also likely prove he sent her £2,000, which is not in the normal pattern of payments, so if she doesn’t address it I think it will look odd.

Again, another good point. Friend just wants it over and write the whole relationship off as the past. They fear if they counter sue that it will drag things on. But I fear what you're saying.

I'm sharing all the responses with my friend.

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