Ivy removal - who pays?

[WoolyMammoth55]

Hi all, very grateful for any knowledgeable legal input.

We own a ground floor flat in a converted Victorian house. The flat above has recently sold.

The new owners have contacted us to request that ivy on the exterior of the building be removed at our expense as it is blocking the light from one of their windows.

The ivy is very well-established, and no doubt decades old. We did not plant it; in fact one of the first things we did as owners of the ground floor property was to sever it at the roots. Despite this, it's still flourishing, almost a decade on. I think it is self-sustaining from the sucker-like roots in the wall (but I'm no horticulture expert!)

We don't have much spare cash right now and would like to civilly refuse this request but offer them access to the wall to pay for the removal themselves.

Is this an acceptable compromise or is it our responsibility to pay for the removal?

Thanks for any advice!

Ha ha, yes, like a Magician! And perhaps as an encore OP could saw a spider in half 😀.

And a practical tip for you about moving the pot…it’s the earth inside it that makes it heavy!

Is there no covenant in the deeds that details responsibly for outdoor communal space?

You need to cut that trunk off completely, at least a foot higher up, and remove a section between the two cuts, as a pp above explains.

Ivy cannot just be growing out of the wall. There must be a part of it in the ground somewhere. Unless... it has found a crack in a downpipe, put roots through it, which then go down to the ground inside the pipe. In which case there could be bigger troubles ahead.

Hang on - in that photo, what's the thick brown horizontal thing, going from side to side right by the slabs?

Could it be that the reason the pot is so immovably heavy is because it has grown out of a hole in the bottom of the pot and into the ground, and that's what the thick sideways thing is - a trunk of ivy attached to the base of the pot?

Unfortunately it looks like you are going to have to get legal advice, what a twat your new neighbour is.

Yeah I spotted that too! Worrying! But our nice tenant did say he'd been hacking at it so I'm hoping it's a chunk from higher up the wall that's just fallen there...

If not, and we somehow missed a massive trunk growing out from under the patio (really hoping we were not that stupid but POSSIBLE!) then are we back to me being solely responsible and somehow "under notice to remove"?

😱

Thanks @Doggymummar - on that basis do I need to

1. find my copies of lease and freehold documents
2. make an appointment with a property lawyer at a nice local firm
3. pay them for an hour's worth of advice and a letter outlining next steps?

I guess I also need to get lots more pics and videos from the tenants to try to work out whether or not it has any visible roots into our patio, since that may be a key point and right now I'm not sure?

I haven't replied yet obviously but if that's the consensus way forward then I'll try to do this ASAP.

Again many thanks to everyone for the advice!

This. It's a shared issue as it relates to the structure of the building and the land which surrounds it. It should at the least be a shared cost, but they're welcome to do the legwork to find quotes (three is reasonable) and present them to the other FH shareholders.

Ooh, I've come into this late, sorry, ignore my previous post.

If they're going down that route I'd say that the walls of the building are owned by the freehold company and you are prepared to review removal on request from the freeholder. And then get the other flat to agree that they're not bothered by it and you'd then have a majority 😁

Ideally of course you'd show them that it's not your ivy and as such not your problem.

If she's scared of spiders then where does she think the thousands of homeless spiders are going to go if the ivy is removed?

I’d suggest the following thought process/document/ fact check.

1. Is the ivy growing from your patio?
2. If yes, is there anything in the docs that makes you responsible for plants that grow in your patio? If not express, is this duty implied by law? (I think it might well be)
3. if yes to the above, it may be reasonable for the neighbours to ask you to have it trimmed back from their window. That may need a contractor but would not be an expensive job.
4. Total removal. This is the big issue. I would say that this is no longer about who was responsible for it ending up there in the first place and is more about who is responsible for any issues affecting the exterior of the property regardless of the location of these issues. (Chances are it is joint responsibility of all 3 freeholders, regardless of where the issue is, but only the docs will say for sure.) Likely it is for all 3 to decide, and it is not necessarily the case that the ivy is doing any harm to the building, whereas removal could damage it and/or leave it very unsightly, which is no small thing as it affects value. It cannot just be removed because someone (who just bought the place knowing it was there) has decided it’s not to their taste.
5. it’s possible, I guess, that if the ivy is damaging the building and costs the 3 freeholders jointly to have it removed, there might be a subsequent right of the other two to recover their shares of the cost from you if your flat was responsible for it getting there in the first place. (I don’t think you can just wash your hands of it on the grounds that it grew under the watch of the previous owners.) But this is further down the line.

IANAL, but a couple of observations (formerly owned a shared freehold Victorian conversion):

• Anything to do with exterior building maintenance would typically be shared unless otherwise stated in the lease docs. E.g. for my old flat, which was ground floor, it DID say I had to do external maintenance up to the top of the external window level.
• I'm curious that you said your garden land is shared ownership but you have sole use. So it doesn't form part of your private land in your lease? That feels unusual.
• I'm surprised buildings insurance conveys responsibility for maintenance, but if it does check what it says for you.

My gut feel is that this is either a shared problem, or the vertical version of overhanging trees. It's bloody annoying when you are impacted by and have to pay to deal with someone else's vegetation, but ultimately it's your problem. That said, because you share a building, I think there's scope to be considerate. It could be argues whoever planted it (your predecessors) should have done a better job of maintaining it within their vertical boundaries. Clearly that ship has long since sailed. I all think removing it could unearth all manner of brickwork issues which could end up costly for all of you.

Can you find a handy man with a ladder willing to cut it right back around their affected window and propose that cost is split?

We have it on our block of flats.

It's been completely cut off from the ground by a good 2 feet so now it's dead. We have not removed the bits attached to the wall.

So that seems the answer - to kill it by removing roots. Then cut it back from windows. Then leave it.

Probably a cost to you it all the ivy started growing from your land (I have a car park space in the block do that my land within a common area) and clearly not been killed off. But it should be fairly easy to establish where it's growing from?

What did you do OP?

Reading with interest as we’re in a ground floor flat in an Edwardian conversion, and our next door neighbour has asked us to deal with the ivy that is growing between our houses right up to the roof. Upstairs (tenants) have never mentioned it. I can’t work out where the ivy plant originates; the next door neighbour said definitely not their side, but it’s not clearly emanating from our side either. It could have multiple roots.

Yes, I have thought about you from time to time, any update?

Hi @KingsleyBorder and @Trying2bemum we have at this point done nothing.

The tenants DID find a big root on our side that we didn't see before - not in the pot but originating from between paving slabs.

There also seem to be at least 2 large branches coming around the corner from next door's side return, so it's not all "ours"!

However, we haven't heard anything from the flat upstairs since their second legalese message so are not going to rush into any action - we sadly have some roof repairs to pay for at the flat before we start worrying about the ivy.

Thanks again everyone for the advice, much appreciated!

Ivy can ultimately bring some houses down so all of you joint freeholders probably should want it removed. It will only grow from roots so first of all just get out there and cut it at the roots so what is now on the walls dies off. It is very satisfying pulling it off - one of my favourite garden jobs so you might have fun pulling some of it down.

On the legal issues it is coming up from the ground - the jointly owned freeholder owned ground (as long as it does not start in your pots on your patio that is - check.) So could be a joint exercise by the freeholders. The simplest thing to start would be just pull down what you can rather than bothering pay anyone. Sometimes you can get parts of it and pull and a lot comes down from higher up too. Cut everything at the bottom so it dies too. If some is reachable from a window then safely you may be able to pull some from inside too.

At the very least I hope you've cancelled the cleaner.

A family member had a huge ivy growing against her fence. It originated from her neighbour. It was 25 years + old. It had huge trunks and roots, it destroyed the fence.
I would get a gardener to have a look to see if it’s damaging any structures. If so then maybe building insurance will need to be involved.
Ot does sound like your neighbour needs to discuss the issues caused with the owner of the other roots too.