Ivy removal - who pays?

[WoolyMammoth55]

Hi all, very grateful for any knowledgeable legal input.

We own a ground floor flat in a converted Victorian house. The flat above has recently sold.

The new owners have contacted us to request that ivy on the exterior of the building be removed at our expense as it is blocking the light from one of their windows.

The ivy is very well-established, and no doubt decades old. We did not plant it; in fact one of the first things we did as owners of the ground floor property was to sever it at the roots. Despite this, it's still flourishing, almost a decade on. I think it is self-sustaining from the sucker-like roots in the wall (but I'm no horticulture expert!)

We don't have much spare cash right now and would like to civilly refuse this request but offer them access to the wall to pay for the removal themselves.

Is this an acceptable compromise or is it our responsibility to pay for the removal?

Thanks for any advice!

It can't survive attached to a wall with no means of sustenance, and if you cut the main stem years ago, there must be another one somewhere.

I don't think it's slam dunk case of you being responsible. Can they not just take secateurs to the area around their window?

Is the ivy damaging the structure in any way - for example affecting the bricks or pointing.

What, if anything, does the lease say about such things.

NAL. It might depend on several factors that I can think of. So whose land /garden is the ivy planted in and who’s responsible for the exterior maintenance? You both may be liable or only one party. The answers may well determine who needs to deal with it.

As a gardener, I was always under the belief that the best way to kill a wall growing ivy, was to sever the branches twice, and clear about a meter worth of growth between the two cuts. That way you know you’ve not missed the one stem which keeps the plant alive. Then once the uppermost is dead, it should be easier to remove.

Thanks @griegwithhimandhim that's interesting. It's a beast of a thing, there were roots down into 3 different huge pots on our patio (which we severed years ago) but it also turns the corner of the house into the neighbour's property so possible that there are other roots there?

It's a total mystery, basically, but covering an expanse of perhaps 50 sqm of wall over 3 storeys - I can imagine the bill for removal would be significant so am not keen to take this on just because new owners have snapped their fingers and demanded it.

Also don't want to be a CF evil neighbour though! Just trying to work out what is reasonable.

IANAL ...but we had a problem with Ivy growing up the neighbours garage which is on the boundary at the bottom of our garden, into their eaves. We had to cut all the stems at the base frequently (and also a bit higher up, as the PP described) for a few years to get it under control. In terms of removal, you need to sever it and then wait for it to die so it loses its grip, you don't want to try ripping out living Ivy.

Legally I'd guess it may depend if you own the land on which the house is built or is it somehow shared?

Who owns the land from where it is growing? If it’s you, it’s your plant and your responsibility. You needed to remove it properly 10 years ago. It’s not good for the building to have this growing up it. I would think it’s probably your responsibility in the circumstances. If the land is jointly owned, it’s everyone’s responsibility. Or maybe the freeholder’s depending on tenure.

Who owns the freehold of the property and do you have a management company?

Usually external and communal things are either covered by a service charge or equally. Occasionally it will be (for example in a two flat building) one does ground up the other does roof down to halfway between the floors. So check your head lease. Most likely the cost of trimming back or removing the ivy will be shared between all flats.

Assuming is a leasehold flat, there will be a management company that you all pay a service charge to. Can you contact them for advice?

Thanks all - the ownership of the house is a shared freehold structure, 999 year lease on top. All flat owners are co-owners of the freehold and lease.

So I do not solely own the land or the wall that the ivy is growing on, although I have sole use of the patio.

Generally building maintenance and insurances are split between the 3 flat owners.

Exactly - what would happen if the exterior of the property needed to be repainted or otherwise repaired, for example? It will be the same procedure.

Perhaps you deal with the request in the first instance by showing them that there are no roots on your patio?

Then you suggest that they trim back the part covering their window at their own expense.

I would imagine that the ivy is quite attractive, whereas removal will probably leave ugly marks. As long as it’s not damaging the property generally the other 2 flats would be entitled to vote against removing it.

They don’t seem to be making a great impression as new neighbours!

Thanks very much for the helpful advice.

Part of my issue is with timing, I don't want to undertake expensive works right now, even if only liable for partial costs, as we are squeezed and trying to save for Xmas.

Would it be reasonable to ask them to do the leg work in sourcing removal quotes (since they are the ones who want it removed) and then to delay the actual works until the spring (as I'm starting a new job next year and will have more wriggle room with finances then)?

Many thanks all.

Do you want it removed?

It's not a you problem it's a joint us problem. Reply that you're happy to support any reasonable plan of action but it will need to be raised at the next Freeholders meeting and agreed jointly. If you don't hold these meeting regularly it's a good idea to hold one when one of the Freeholds changes hands, and they can call one.
My share of Freehold flat never used a Management Co we just agreed it all between us. I did the yearly accounts and someone else ran the bank account and paid any maintenance we agreed upon. It was very simple.

I think they're mostly harmless :) but the demands have been consistent over the past month.

One of the things was we all have to contribute to paying a cleaner to clean the communal hallway and staircase every week. New neighbours felt it was dusty and 'attracting spiders'... She'd seen a spider and was terrified and felt that paying for weekly cleaning would get rid of them. (I used to just give it a sweep myself every once in a blue moon, it's a very small area!)

I didn't want to burst her bubble that in October in a Victorian property there's no cleaner on earth who can spider-proof the house! But we gave in to that and are paying for her peace of mind...

So I do wonder if she's seen a spider in the ivy and now wants that gone too!

I like ivy, but you could tell them they should take it up with the previous owners. They were the ones who let it grow the ivy grow upwards from you.

No idea if it’s legal but I think you could disagree with them on that logic.

Also, if it’s a matter of just blocking the light, why does the whole thing need removing? We just used to cut back the ivy ourselves from around the windows.

I read the the damage ivy causes has been vastly over exaggerated (except for specific situations). I also know that when you pull ivy off the wall it leaves it very unsightly.

I didn’t know you had to wait for it to die before you could pull it off. My ex pulled all our ivy off the wall, in spite of me not wanting him to.

If its a shared building maintenance situation and you do not have the roots of the ivy then they can't really demand you pay for removal. They sound fussy, but as nice as ivy is, it shouldn't go unchecked. I have a variety grown up my home which is stunning, but we pull it down each autumn and let it regrow, otherwise we get it growing into the house between the wall and window frame. Can't the owners all get together and sort it out, you really don't need external contractors.

If its a shared building maintenance situation and you do not have the roots of the ivy then they can't really demand you pay for removal.

Yes... tell them there's no roots/stems coming from your patio area so it's not your specific responsibility. (Check first there really are no stems!).

it also turns the corner of the house into the neighbour's property so possible that there are other roots there?

Suggest to them they check this with the neighbours.

I think tell them what you have told us - that you cut the stems and it still hasn’t died

The easiest short term solution is for them to simply open their windows and cut it away.

Couple of views on probability etc of actual damage:

https://www.rhs.org.uk/prevention-protection/ivy-on-buildings

https://www.fantasticgardeners.co.uk/tree-surgery/does-ivy-damage-walls/

Depends on the wall and the type of ivy.

We have it in quantity in the garden but have kept it off the house itself. If you're intending to prune it/show who is boss bear in mind working on it after February might be a problem because of birds nesting.

Professional folks wouldn't go near ours in April as there were what we think were Blackbirds nesting in it.

Other lesson we've learned is that you need to keep on top of it. Leave it a year or three and it gets woody to the point of needing a chainsaw to cut it back.

In OP's shoes I'd suggest collectively instructing a professional to look at it and taking their advice. If it's doing no harm then maybe the newcomers just need to cut it back from their window. Perhaps a 'working party' could be put together from the residents and other problem areas dealt with?

did she not see the ivy when she viewed the flat? did she go around with her eyes closed? wait till the colder weather brings all the spiders indoors because they are expecting them all to be tarantulas this year! I personally dont like ivy on houses because I have been in one where the ivy was growing up the bedroom wall which an old gentleman slept in!! think she sounds like she is going to be a nightmare neighbour. dont let her walk all over you!! btw ivy is quite easy to remove yourself. you dont need to get a company to do it for you

I may have misread your post but if the ivy is in pots then either offer to cut back above your flat or offer to let them come in and clear it with ladders below their flat and give them access to do it. ( Have I misread )