Boundaries

[Queenofmews]

I live in a detached property and the old garden fence is not on my actual boundary.
I have lived here a few years and although I had thought it oddly placed I have never really looked into it until now.
I need to install a new fence all around my home ( the old garden fence only runs a short distance as my garage then blocks rest of neighbours garden, hard to explain) due to issues with my neighbour and I need this to be on the correct boundary for some practical reasons as well as not accepting an incorrect boundary. I will call my neighbour Bill.
I have been told by a different neighbour who has lived here for much longer than either me or Bill that what happened was that the previous owners (now dead) of Bills house moved the garden fence over on to what is now my land whilst the then owners of my house were in a care home and then died. My property was later sold to the people I bought from who were unaware of this history.
My deeds show the boundary line although not actual measurements as no deeds do this. There is a concrete garden path which defines the boundary edge too.
I have a property information form from when I bought stating no boundaries were moved in the previous 20 years.
I also have an aerial photo of where the original correct boundary fence was.
Plus I am in a row of ten identical houses and all have the same width of boundary.
Despite all of this my neighbour is trying to argue that I cannot put up a new fence as he says the old garden fence must define the actual boundary and obviously this is to his benefit.
He is a difficult person with a history of trouble with other neighbours here.
Any advice please?

I'm.not legal expert but does Bill have any paperwork to prove this?

He sounds like a massively CF and he's chancing his arm

First of all, YABU for not giving us a diagram!
Second, what proof do you have that the current fence isn’t on the correct boundary? An aerial photo only shows where something is, not where something should be. Also, houses in the same block can, and often do, have different sized boundaries.
What is the difference in measurements you’re talking about here?

Sorry! I don’t know how to put a diagram on
I know the old bit of fence is not on the correct boundary as all the boundaries mine included are in a straight line front to back lining up with the edge of next doors concrete path.
I have actually checked with the other ten neighbours who all have the same width of boundary and have measured and taken photos to show this.
Bill has exactly the same width of boundary on his other side as we all do here so I very much believe he does know the real score but wants to try to make things as hard for me as possible.
Its only a few feet but it makes the difference between easily running a fence around or not.
I have spoken to a property solicitor but just to get to the stage of writing a first letter is £1500 plus vat!

A few feet is a lot! How long as the old fence been in position? The deeds are only a general indication of the location of the boundary and can't be relied on if they don't contain measurements. Gather as much evidence as you can as to where the fence should be and if necessary, just move!

Before you do anything, I would suggest having a look on the Garden Law forum for boundary issues. You already know that you are not dealing with a rational person and you are going to have to live next door to this person for probably a long time. Never underestimate how crazy people's behaviour can become.

I am not suggesting that you don't move the fence to the correct location but it does depend what type of person you are and whether you can weather the shit storm that can come from this. My sister had this issue, they even had a surveyor come out and the neighbour still disagreed with the legal expert.

My advice would be to get all the information together to give a copy to Bill before you start and forewarn the fence people so they are aware this might be contentious. And good luck.

If the fencing has been put up for several years in the wrong place (e,.g. not on the legal boundary) then legally this is probably the new boundary so Bill is correct. Any new fencing needs to be put up in the same place or you thrash this all out with solicitors. I'd suggest any fencing contractor involves Bill in any new fence put up and you get his agreement before any work is done to avoid this escalating unnecessarily. Good luck, Bill sounds like a nightmare.

Have you got legal cover on your home insurance? That might help.

Bill might try claim adverse possession.

You need to do this properly.

As a general rule plans are only indicative of boundaries.

Bill may have aquired the land through adverse possession.

If you are insistent about moving the fence, be prepared for a fight. Agree with checking your home insurance for legal cover.

Bill has only lived there 6 years so not long enough for adverse possession. The previous owners are long dead so cannot be contacted to declare accrued rights.
I have now obtained a letter from the previous owner of my house giving the history of the fence.
I have sent Bill a copy of my deeds and am prepared with other evidence but as people have said some neighbours are mad enough that even a surveyors report will be ignored.
He actually edged his garden boundary in brick along my boundary two years ago so he did accept the boundary then but having had a recent problem with his behaviour he is now being bloody minded in my view.
He has put up a barrier stopping where the fence needs to run and I am told that if I remove this I could be said to be committing criminal damage.
It is all madness which allows people like this to get away with whatever they want and leaves their victims to go to great expense to prove the blimmin obvious!
I will look at garden law site, thank you for that suggestion.

I second posting on gardenlaw

Me too, there's a lot of advice there - good luck

I have lived here 7 years, Bill moved in 6 months later.
As for me being mad to not know the boundary well its hard without you seeing it but its not mad if I could explain the set up better than I have.
Bizarrely I have just spent the past three hours sat in my garden comforting and holding on to Bill’s dog who appeared in my garden crying. The poor dog regularly gets out and lots of neighbours have caught her before sometimes quite a distance away and nobody ever gets a word of thanks. Bill was out and not answering my repeated calls to the number on the dogs collar. Eventually answered and then got home another hour later and all I got were accusing questions as if it was my fault!
I am off to garden law to read up

"Bill has only lived there 6 years so not long enough for adverse possession. The previous owners are long dead so cannot be contacted to declare accrued rights."

This will not necessarily prevent him from establishing adverse possession. I really would obtain legal advice if you can afford it.

@NaturalStudy could you explain please? How could he obtain accrued rights without getting proof from the previous owners?

The Land Registry will accept other evidence than just the evidence of the previous owners. If he has photographs, documentation, statutory declarations from others as to the position of the fence then the LR may accept this. I think you acknowlege the fence has been in that position for at least 7 years, so Bill only needs to establish a few more years. You may be fine, Im just saying that it might be a slog if Bill is going to fight all the way.

Lots of people talking about adverse possession, but didn't the law change so the person claiming adverse possession has to make an application and the other person has the opportunity to object?

I'm not a property lawyer so please double check this and don't rely on it!