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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Oh fuck what is going to happen?

541 replies

notahappybunny7 · 10/09/2023 23:23

My mum has passed away. She has left everything in her will to me(house paid(220k and about 50k in savings)
no other siblings off my mother but my dad has 4 more(no relationship with them)
they're married have been for 40+ years but he’s a twat who’s never worked properly, my mum has grafted her arse off to pay mortgage and ct, he has paid utilities and food, well the basics my mum alway bought her lunches and any luxuries. No joint accounts ever.
I’m not money grabbing it my mum wanted this for me and my daughter, to better our lives, he is saying he’s not moving and will contest the will. What will happen?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 11/09/2023 08:32

notahappybunny7 · 10/09/2023 23:37

No married for many years when they got this house, workshy cunt didn’t want the mortgage so just in my mums name

This means it's a marital asset. And if he was on benefits he was dependent on her, so he has a claim.

Definitely seek legal advice.

EggInANest · 11/09/2023 08:32

Oh sorry, prh47bridge is already here!

Nimello · 11/09/2023 08:33

Get legal advice.

Do not discuss this any further with anyone other than a lawyer, including on Mumsnet. You'd be surprised how many people pose as lawyers on MN!

To contradict a PP, you can unfortunately behave as badly as you like in a marriage, but the law remains the same when it comes to finances after divorce or death.

CrabbiesGingerBeer · 11/09/2023 08:36

Skodacool · 11/09/2023 08:18

Marriage revokes all previous wills. If she made her will after the marriage then it should stand. Marriage in itself does not stop her from making a new will. OP needs to take the will to a solicitor. If it’s correctly drawn then she should get on with the process of being executor.

It doesn’t work that was for a spouse.

Basically, while you can disinherit anyone else (there are exceptions but they obviously aren’t relevant here), you aren’t allowed to leave a spouse worse off on death than they would have been on divorce.

There is no doubt the father will win any case to set aside the will. Since he was financially dependent and I think someone said registered disabled, he is likely to get even more than usual (as he would have on divorce).

It doesn’t matter whether the will is made before or after marriage with a claim for reasonable provision.

The OP needs proper legal advice from a qualified solicitor.

burnoutbabe · 11/09/2023 08:37

JoanOfAllTrades · 11/09/2023 01:42

@notahappybunny7

I’m so very sorry about your mum and now you have to deal with this!

Do not discuss this issue of the Will with your father, but tell him that anything to do with how the Will left things, needs to go through solicitors.

Inheritance law in England means that your dad can indeed be cut out of your mother’s Will.

Her inheritance is not counted as inherited money/property doesn’t count as matrimonial assets and thus can be left to whomever she likes!

The Will should have been written in such a way that it doesn’t leave any wiggle room for a claim against the Estate.

Going to court will eat in to a lot of your inheritance!

Your father will have to prove that he contributed in some way to the house/marriage. This could be by proving he paid towards the bills/mortgage, or perhaps he was a house husband who was responsible for the running of the household, as when a wife would support her husband in other ways that aren’t financial, by allowing the spouse to work whilst taking care of all the home duties/children.

Everything you say about your father, you will have to prove, just as everything he says, he will have to prove.

It isn’t as cut and dried as I was married to OP’s mum so I want half of everything.

Law doesn’t work like that. It’s not necessarily about what’s fair, it’s about what’s legal, what legal precedents there are, what your mother’s wishes were.

Unfortunately, when husbands die and leave Wills like this, yes, wives can and do find themselves cut off with nothing.

Also, if your father never (legally) worked, he may have a claim towards your mother’s pension, so be aware of that. Unless your mother also put that in the Will.

A solicitor (preferably the one who drew up the Will), will not cost you an arm and a leg to go and see and get legal advice. It’s better to do this now so that you know where you stand, as it may well be that you can come to some agreement with your father rather than have a costly, and drawn out, legal battle.

Also, things like too many stairs and he’s aging, are nothing to with the Law or the Will. The judge isn’t going to make a decision predicated on the layout of the house, whether your father can afford to stay in the house, whether he can afford to pay the bills for the house, or anything else.

It may well be that your father just wants to continue living in the marital home, which wouldn’t be so unusual, rather than he wants the Will overturned (which is unlikely to happen, as Wills tend to be a person’s last wishes and judges are mindful of that and don’t tend to throw a Will out in favour of English intestate law).

It’s unusual that your mum didn’t allow him a tenant in common provision, which allows spouses to live in property until they die, but doesn't mean that the spouse inherits.

Ultimately, judges always try to take into account what the deceased person’s wishes were.

What you are saying about proving contributing to the property is the law surrounding proving you are entitled to a share when unmarried people buy a house together (and one isn't on deeds or they argue a different share to what's in the deeds)
Not married people who divorce or split by death.

NoYohgurtAgain · 11/09/2023 08:37

Good morning OP.

I just wanted to say that I’m so sorry for your loss. I’ve recently lost a parent too.

I am no legal expert so won’t offer any further advice, other than to repeat - definitely play your cards close to your chest in terms of the estate (just keep saying ‘don’t worry dad, no need to make any decisions right now, I’ll make sure you are looked after, but right now I need to focus on grieving and sorting out probate’). He will be very anxious which could easily lead him to anger and fighting you so reassuring him might help to avoid that and it sounds like you are thinking about how to provide for him so it’s the truth.

The first practical step is to see the solicitor that drew up the will. And of course there is registration of the death, freezing her accounts, the ‘Tell Us Once’ form and funeral arrangements. So there are lots of other things to do. It will be a while before anything can happen with the house. There is no immediate urgency.

I am hoping, for your sake, that the will allows him to stay in the house and then it passes to you. I really think that this will be the simpler option. In time as his health deteriorates and he then dies too, it will come to you, without the added trauma of a legal battle.

Although your dad was ‘vile’ and abusive, you may still find his demise and ultimately his death traumatic and complex (speaking from experience). You will want to look back on this time and feel ok about how you conducted yourself. So my main advice is to seek counselling. That way, you have a confidential space to talk through the very complex emotions and thoughts you are experiencing and decide on the right course of action in a safe space.

Grief brings with it any or all of the emotions we are able to feel as humans and so it can be hard to think clearly. Anger is one of those emotions and it sounds like you hold some justifiable anger towards your dad. There will be other emotions underneath that too. So what I’m saying is to try and separate the emotional side of it from the practical/legal if at all possible (hard, I know).

Do the things you can; see the solicitor, get probate under way - but set time aside for those things. In between just feel. Look after yourself really well. Make sure you eat and drink and anyone who offers practical help - let them. Take time to cry.

Don’t make decisions on the hoof. Always buy yourself some time and wait until you are calm. If you feel pressure to make a decision use the mantra ‘I can’t think straight right now, I’m grieving, let me have some time to think that through and I’ll come back to you’.

If you haven’t had the funeral yet, that will take some organising and keep you busy. Probate is a longer process so just do ‘each next step’ and between them - Let yourself grieve.

Don’t let the fear and anger about the past and how your dad has been and fears about what might be in the future get in the way of feeling what you need to feel and loving who you need to love.

Best of luck OP. It’s such a hard time for you. I will be thinking of you.

Seychal · 11/09/2023 08:37

NatashaDancing · 11/09/2023 08:30

Very true.

Or they can come on MN to get a majority of 'feel good' dodgy advice.

What @Familylawso1icitor has posted is the place to go. The likely outcome here is a life interest in the property (or proceeds thereof) for husband with what is left reverting to OP when her father has died. The practical issues are twofold:

  1. Getting professional advice and making a sold reasonable offer before father appoints an aggressive law firm who will drive costs up.
  2. Setting aside adequate funds to maintain the property so it remains habitable and in good order while father is alive.

These will probably play out in a way that OP will receive little until father has died. That might not be for 20+ years or could be next month.

I would be very interested here to know who the executors are and whether they could be appointed to act fairly as trustee under this arrangement.

BirdiePlantaganet · 11/09/2023 08:38

Not a lawyer, but surely he can contest this successfully. They were married and living together. I think he has a good chance here.

He’d not get everything, but surely he’d be entitled to half as though they had divorced?

Choux · 11/09/2023 08:38

@prh47bridge a question for you as the only person here who works in law:

Lots of people are saying that they would contest on a no win no fee basis as it has been their home for decades and wouldn't lose it. Do you think if a case were brought by OPs dad that his age would count against him ie at 77 you might only expect to live another 5-10 years so making a reasonable provision for him would be less than 50% of the estate? Or is age irrelevant in the law?

CrabbiesGingerBeer · 11/09/2023 08:40

Parky04 · 11/09/2023 08:30

He won't need to have any money.He will be able to get a 'no win no fee agreement' as his chances of success are very high. OP needs to come to an agreement as solicitor costs could easily wipe out her share of any inheritance.

This. The law is very clear so when the Father wins his case, the OP will be ordered to pay his legal bills. He doesn’t need money up front with such an obviously winnable case.

Please note, I’m not commentating on the morality of his claim, just the law. It was designed to prevent elderly wives who had never worked being disinherited for their husband’s bimbo (or children of his first marriage, of course) but the law covers all married couples.

ilovebrie8 · 11/09/2023 08:41

Oh dear OP what a muddle …as you parents were married for 40 years and lived together I don’t think you’ll be able to just turf him out the house. He’s blind too which adds to the issue…understand your frustrations but you need expert advice on this.
I would prepare your yourself though that he will likely have a claim on the house …

FakeFool · 11/09/2023 08:43

Puncturedbicycle85 · 11/09/2023 07:42

He doesn’t need to contest the will. His claim will be for inadequate financial provision. Nothing to do with whether the will was valid or who drafted it.

This! People are confusing divorce laws, contesting a will and making a claim under The Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 and the laws about whether the Dad automatically has rights to the property

LookItsMeAgain · 11/09/2023 08:43

I'm so sorry for your loss @notahappybunny7. I've read the whole thread and if he is as abusive as you say he is, perhaps you might need to massage his ego a bit over the coming weeks and months.

You have been willed a house that he lives in but he's registered as blind. You also mentioned that you would be able to put him in an apartment/flat instead of him remaining in the family home, did I read that bit right?

Well, the tactic I would use with the support of my legal advisers (if I were you in this situation) is to use the carrot and stick approach - the prospect of possibly getting a cushy pad that would be his (you might have to draft up some sort of legal statement saying that you will not have any claim on that apartment or that you will have a minimal stake in the place but go with whatever your advisers suggest here) as a carrot and the stick is that in order to get this cushy pad, he has to release all possible claim on the home.

Most definitely though, you need to get the best possible legal advice you can from someone who specialises in wills and probate.

Good luck with it all.

machinescanthink · 11/09/2023 08:44

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

burnoutbabe · 11/09/2023 08:45

notahappybunny7 · 11/09/2023 07:26

Thank you for all you responses. I’m not getting angry at people trying to give advice, more those who are painting him as some kind of wronged, vulnerable poor elderly soul. He’s been utterly vile and it’s so upsetting that yes, he can still fuck my mother over in death

The law is effectively just saying she can't screw him over in death by leaving him with nothing.

notahappybunny7 · 11/09/2023 08:46

If I allow him to live there till death what will happen to mums money? And what if he needs a care home, how will that be paid for?

OP posts:
femfemlicious · 11/09/2023 08:47

If I were you, I would negotiate with him. Your mum should have divorced him. She can't just will everything to you, some of it belongs to him because they were married. The courts will decide how much he gets. I would negotiate with him without prejudice. Avoid court at all costs as a lot of it will go to the lawyers. You will probably have to pay his costs as well. He has very good grounds.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 11/09/2023 08:50

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

The OP is sure of her mum's wishes because there is a will stating them!

But the OP's mother was either badly advised, or chose to go against advice. It was always obvious that a disabled, dependent spouse of 40 years would have a claim on a home that is also a marital asset. He should therefore have been provided for, by leaving him a life interest in the house. The OP's mum could have prevented this situation by doing so, but didn't.

Choux · 11/09/2023 08:52

notahappybunny7 · 11/09/2023 08:46

If I allow him to live there till death what will happen to mums money? And what if he needs a care home, how will that be paid for?

You will get the £50k as per the will. You may need to put some aside to help pay for any repairs and maintenance of the property while your dad lives there.

If he has to go into care they will ask who owns his current home. He will say my daughter. They might then ask how that happened and speak to you but if it was a will from your mother and your father never legally owned it but was allowed to live there after her death I think they would have a hard time proving anything untoward happened especially if you tell them why she didn't want to leave him anything. I think it will all be yours in the end.

dottiedodah · 11/09/2023 08:53

What a sad situation! I am not a lawyer ,but I cannot see if your dad lives there and they were still married will he surely be allowed to stay? I mean its a shit show,but the law is the law .As others have said to consult a Lawyer ASAP for advice .You may need to have Counselling too.Your Mum for her own reasons has decided to stay married ,had she got divorced(Not judging her) then she would have separate finances .She hasnt and I would imagine your dad will have a good case sadly .Cruse offer free counselling for bereaved people .

IClaudine · 11/09/2023 08:55

Your best bet would be to come to an arrangement to with your dad, OP. Allow him to live in house until he dies or has to move into a care home. I know this will be hard, but it is far better than an expensive court battle.

YukoandHiro · 11/09/2023 08:57

You need a good lawyer who can act as your advocate and understand this unique case in detail.

TheShinmeister · 11/09/2023 08:58

As her husband half of everything is his. It doesn’t seem fair but life isn’t

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 11/09/2023 08:58

Regardless of the individual circumstances of this case, this law is a fair one. A spouse of 40 years is not just a flatmate that you can turf out of the marital home when you die.

It protects SAHM in long marriages who maybe didn't contribute financially to buying the marital home (as this was done using the husband's salary, and in his name), but contributed in a lot of other ways. It also protects spouses who are unable to work and contribute to the mortgage through disability or ill health.

NoYohgurtAgain · 11/09/2023 08:59

notahappybunny7 · Today 08:46

If I allow him to live there till death what will happen to mums money? And what if he needs a care home, how will that be paid for?

OP, this is all for the solicitor to answer. Gently, I think you need to park the future thinking until you see the solicitor. There are lots of people on here with advice but until you see the will and hear from the solicitor it’s really unclear.

The worse case scenario is that he gets everything and you are no worse off financially (but wrung out emotionally), the best case scenario, for you, is that your dad is looked after well enough but you get your mums estate. The reality is likely to be something in-between.

But, right now there is nothing you can do, other than make an appointment with the solicitor. The most important thing is to look after yourself - spending lots of time on the ‘what ifs’ is a sure route to poor mental health at such a difficult time.

So, book the appointment and then park it for a bit and take a bit of time for yourself if you can. I’ve posted more above too about looking after yourself in all of this.