Insurance company won't let me view policy

[worstofbothworlds]

I went away for work and had to claim on the work travel policy.
Work has a huge site-wide agreement with the insurance company which I get is obviously their deal to arrange with the insurance company.
The insurance company is saying ABC are covered but DEF are not because of "conditions". I thought I'd followed all the conditions in the Summary which we get given before we travel. My employer doesn't have the full policy available for staff and I asked to see it (I need to make more work travel later in the year and I don't want to slip up and do something non-covered again).

The person that deals with this at my employer says it's a sensitive commercial document and I can't see it.

(Interestingly I tried Googling and the policy is available with identical wording for at least three similar employers, openly on their websites, presumably so their employees can avoid what I did!).

What's my position here? I didn't pay for the insurance, but I'm subject to its policy, should I have the right to see it?

Are you out of pocket because of the policy's terms?

Yes though not much. I'm concerned if I make a mistake again it could be a lot more though.

That sounds really frustrating.

Can you send them specific questions?

I spent a while on the phone to them and they kept saying "but we know the summary says X, we say Y and it doesn't qualify" but I am going to try sending them questions along the lines of "how are D and E defined in the policy?"

This sounds like a group / master policy where you are not directly a policyholder. However you are a beneficiary of the policy and I would be minded to make a formal complaint in writing to the insurer.

It is that kind of thing - I asked directly for the definitions and they just waffled on about how what I was doing wasn't covered.

You’re not out of pocket - does it matter?

Can't your employer, who is the policy holder, obtain the full policy?

Yes, she is. She confirmed this in her second post on this thread.

Why are you making a direct claim?

why not put it all through your job. They pay your full expense and then they reclaim what they can off the insurance company.

It then the companies problem if the travel policy is missing restrictions.

The procurement department either won't give it to me or doesn't have it - they said due to competition issues.

We have to claim and pay an excess. Work doesn't pay us back. Those are the T&C of the insurance.

And I don't want this to happen again with a different "thing I haven't thought of".

You were at work, if your loss happened because you were at work then push back on your employer to put you back in the same position you were before you ended up with the loss

The person that deals with this at my employer says it's a sensitive commercial document and I can't see it.
Your employer dont get to have their cake and eat it too.

If you are not one party of the contract (you & insurance company) then you argument is that work had to indemnify you as an employee of the company and that you will assist them in getting compensation from their insurance company for an employee expenditure.

If you are a party (you wont be) then the insurance company ( via your employer ) needs to give you a copy of your contract

if it is the companies contract then they need to issue proper instructions (your travel policy and expenditure policy should cover this) and once you follow the instructions they pay you. If not you buy a personal policy and can reclaim the policy cost as a condition of travel.

I have tried this... employer won't show me the policy... employer says my loss isn't covered... I have followed their instructions but I am more concerned that something in the future would be even more not covered IYSWIM as that could get really expensive.

What isn’t covered? What loss did you incur?

Your employer doesn’t have to show you the policy, it is not your policy you have no right to see it. But if you have had losses on a work trip, then you put in an expense claim and if insurance covers it then it is up to your employer to claim and nothing to do with you.

That's not how my employer does it. We have to claim, with an excess that we have to cover.
Lucky for you if your employer doesn't do it that way but if my property I take on a work trip, my baggage, my health care needs paying for I have to pay (or send the bill in for some expenses) to the insurance company, not my employer.

I would refuse to travel for work again.

I think if your company said it was covered to all staff and it was not, they owe you the extra money.

Obviously if you too say £10k worth of personal tech stuff and jewellery on a work trip you probably exceed reasonable limits but assume normal expectations you should be reimbursed.
So I would raise a formal complaint to manager /he about you losing money via having to travel.

Their policy may say you face to do the insurance claim (which is odd but okay) but they need to provide reimbursement if you followed the rules (pre approval obtained etc for medical costs)

You work to make a profit
You do not pay employer expenditure as that means you are paying your employer to work.

If your bag or meds are lost it is during the time you are carrying out the instructions of your employer then it is a work expense. If you got hit by a car and ended up in hospital your job should have a way to pay the bill and get you home.
If you are expected to cover an excess then you are paying your employer to work.

If you are not covered by your employer you need to either get your own policy and charge that as a travel expense or just refuse to travel until such time as your job agree to cover work costs which you would not have if you were not traveling.

If you are going to travel you need to get your own insurance

Agree with others here. Whether or not you have sight of the policy is an irrelevance. Your employer should cover you for work travel. If you pay and claim back that's fine but you shouldn't be funding a policy excess and you certainly shouldn't be denied reasonable expenses/compensation for loss. They chose to take out the policy - it's terms and conditions are their business rather than yours. What is very much your business is being reimbursed.

Speak to your union or ACAS.

It's all very well to say take out my own insurance but it would be more expensive (this is free to me) and not cover me for as much (e.g. this covers for any travel unless against medical advice, and I have various pre-existing conditions).
I will talk to my union. But there is a fairly poor culture of "oh we don't pay for that, that was your choice" e.g. where we have a meals allowance but it won't cover where we are actually working, ditto hotels, "oh that's your budget for this project, what do you mean it doesn't cover what you actually spent" while needing to run this project to get up the ladder (or similar projects but again needing to work away).

You need to do is take control or leave.

What happens if you take the hard line that if they need you to be on site then they pay the full costs of getting the job done even when the project manager underestimates the cost involved in the project?

your budget for this project
Your reply is that it is not my budget, X is the cost and its not my problem if the budget was wrong.

If you dont want to work for an employer that is getting richer by screwing their employees for what is likely small change in the overall project costs you need to either push back on what is a company cost or find a better employer

Well, it's the difference between having a job and not having a job (in an industry where jobs are hard to get at my level), and being allowed to choose (and in some cases budget for - because that's part of running them) projects that will enhance my reputation vs not running any projects independently and being seen as "that colleague that doesn't bother working independently", no chance of promotion, no future responsibility etc.

I know I'm not in the only sector that doesn't budget properly for travel - friends and relatives in local/central government have very strict spending guidelines which are often completely out of step with how much things cost and it's a case of "if you want to eat while away with work, tough luck if you want it covered".

There are lots of sectors with crazy purchasing policies and I can't change this one singlehandedly.

I'm sure there are other sectors where you don't have to work within daft rules but I'm not in one of them nor am I likely to move to one.