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Original poster

Urgent advice please: landlord & letting agent dispute

63 replies

Constantlybusy · 06/08/2023 20:02

My DD's landlord turned up on her doorstep and asked her not to pay her rent next week. He wants to get rid of his letting agent and told DD that she shouldn't pay her rent to help him out. He implied that the agent has increased her rent (twice) and pocketed the difference. The landlord said he hadn't asked for a rent increase and there were a couple of other issues where , apparently, DD and landlord were told different things by the agent.

Landlord is now saying that if DD helps him, he will provide new contract with a different agent and lower the rent. This feels very dodgy to me. He wants to cone back to talk to her and flatmate in a few days.

I have advised DD that her contract is with the letting agent and if she defaults on her rent she will be breaking her contract and making herself very vulnerable. She has 6 months remaining on her current tenancy agreement.

I am looking for legal advice to pass onto DD so that she acts with caution. Thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
Constantlybusy · 06/08/2023 21:37

Of course the agent could well be the dodgy one and the landlord concerned that he won't get his money, which is why he's asked DD not to pay her rent this month. But will this come back to bite her because her tenancy agreement is surely with the letting agent? I've searched online and can't find any useful guidance for tenants in this circumstance. There are people on forums telling landlords to bypass agents and talk directly to the tenants, which is what's happened.

OP posts:
filka · 06/08/2023 21:57

I'm a LL using a letting agent and my lease is definitely between the tenant and me. The agent just manages it and is a postbox for the rent - deducting their fees in the process.

SausageinaBun · 06/08/2023 22:00

Normally the lease is with the landlord. But she should have a copy that she can look at, so no need to guess.

Brindelz · 06/08/2023 22:01

Is her lease definitely with the landlord? Is he willing to put his request in writing?

Original poster
Constantlybusy · 06/08/2023 22:05

Thank you. I will get her to check if the agreement is with the landlord. So if he wants her to withhold her rent until he has a new agreement through a new agent, is that a safe thing for her to do?
The agent has handled everything in the past and it's unusual for her to have direct contact with the landlord/owner.

OP posts:
Hadalifeonce · 06/08/2023 22:09

As pp said, he needs to put his request in writing to your DD. Then she has proof of the request if there are any questions.

Brindelz · 06/08/2023 22:09

It’s normal for the contract to be directly with the landlord and for the detailed of the account for rent to be paid into to be in the contract as well. If the contract is with the landlord and she obtains written confirmation that he wants her to pay into a different account, I believe the agent would have no comeback (as she has no contract with them).

To be clear though, I am not a lawyer. What a stressful situation for your daughter.

Ihavekids · 06/08/2023 22:14

I don't get this.

It's the landlords issue to sort with letting agency.

If she withholds rent then the agent could give her a bad reference another time, might make it difficult to find alternative accommodation if she ever needs to.

I'd ring shelter or CAB. Or speak to another agent to ask questions. I wouldn't stop paying rent.

titchy · 06/08/2023 22:16

Was he definitely the landlord? Has her rent gone up - if so surely she just provides LL with copy of email informing her of increase. I'd be concerned LL could use her non payment of rent to evict her.

MikiSu · 06/08/2023 22:16

How does she know he is who he says he is?!

Pot8ohs · 06/08/2023 23:07

I don’t blame you for being worried, this is most odd.

The tenancy agreement ought to be with the LL. He can change his managing agent but he’s going about it in a worrying way. Possibly they are as dodgy as each other. She definitely shouldn’t withhold rent without explicit instructions in writing, and possibly not even then.

I agree with PPs. Have a good read of the tenancy agreement tomorrow, and try to speak with Shelter (the housing charity) and the Citizens Advice ASAP.

The rent increase should have been done per the terms of the tenancy agreement and in writing. Does she have evidence from the letting agent?

Also check that her deposit is correctly protected in one of the schemes.

Original poster
Constantlybusy · 06/08/2023 23:12

Ihavekids · 06/08/2023 22:14

I don't get this.

It's the landlords issue to sort with letting agency.

If she withholds rent then the agent could give her a bad reference another time, might make it difficult to find alternative accommodation if she ever needs to.

I'd ring shelter or CAB. Or speak to another agent to ask questions. I wouldn't stop paying rent.

This is exactly what I said to her.

OP posts:
Original poster
Constantlybusy · 06/08/2023 23:14

MikiSu · 06/08/2023 22:16

How does she know he is who he says he is?!

Her flatmate met him when he was living there when they viewed the property 3 years ago. Today he showed her his passport and some other paperwork as proof of identity.

OP posts:
Original poster
Constantlybusy · 06/08/2023 23:24

Pot8ohs · 06/08/2023 23:07

I don’t blame you for being worried, this is most odd.

The tenancy agreement ought to be with the LL. He can change his managing agent but he’s going about it in a worrying way. Possibly they are as dodgy as each other. She definitely shouldn’t withhold rent without explicit instructions in writing, and possibly not even then.

I agree with PPs. Have a good read of the tenancy agreement tomorrow, and try to speak with Shelter (the housing charity) and the Citizens Advice ASAP.

The rent increase should have been done per the terms of the tenancy agreement and in writing. Does she have evidence from the letting agent?

Also check that her deposit is correctly protected in one of the schemes.

I believe her deposit is protected. Also the rent increases were done on renewal of contracts at the end of 12 month periods. She's had her tenancy for 3 years but it is renewed every 12 months.
I reckon LL is trying to get out of his agreement with the agent without paying a penalty.

I've been doing some digging online and the agent does seem a bit dodgy. When she took up the tenancy it was through a franchise but this year the agent switched it to his personal company and changed the bank account the rent is paid into. Filing of his accounts with HMRC is overdue and he has submitted a request to strike off but it was refused.

But the LL could well be dodgy too. Whilst he told her he wants her to remain as a tenant, he could be using tactics to evict. It's all rather worrying and she pays an absolute fortune in London rent.

OP posts:
RoadSignFool · 06/08/2023 23:34

Her contract is with the landlord. The agent is the landlord’s representative. He has a contract with the agent. If she likes the flat then I would suggest she do what the landlord is asking, keep him on side and he will probably be inclined to deal with her on good terms; she can also get a reference from landlord if she ever needs to move on. Any dispute between landlord and agent should not affect her, but she should not tell the agent she is acting on landlord’s instructions.

(I am a landlord who uses a letting agent. I am also a lawyer, though not an expert in landlord & tenant law)

RoadSignFool · 06/08/2023 23:37

But the LL could well be dodgy too. Whilst he told her he wants her to remain as a tenant, he could be using tactics to evict. It's all rather worrying and she pays an absolute fortune in London rent.

Why would he need to use “tactics” to evict when he can just give her notice under her contract? It takes longer to get someone out for non payment of rent than just by observing the normal notice period. Also if it came to court she could say he told her not to pay.

Original poster
Constantlybusy · 06/08/2023 23:47

RoadSignFool · 06/08/2023 23:37

But the LL could well be dodgy too. Whilst he told her he wants her to remain as a tenant, he could be using tactics to evict. It's all rather worrying and she pays an absolute fortune in London rent.

Why would he need to use “tactics” to evict when he can just give her notice under her contract? It takes longer to get someone out for non payment of rent than just by observing the normal notice period. Also if it came to court she could say he told her not to pay.

Yes. That had occurred to me. Thank you for your advice. I'll pass it on to her.

OP posts:
Original poster
Constantlybusy · 07/08/2023 13:23

RoadSignFool · 06/08/2023 23:34

Her contract is with the landlord. The agent is the landlord’s representative. He has a contract with the agent. If she likes the flat then I would suggest she do what the landlord is asking, keep him on side and he will probably be inclined to deal with her on good terms; she can also get a reference from landlord if she ever needs to move on. Any dispute between landlord and agent should not affect her, but she should not tell the agent she is acting on landlord’s instructions.

(I am a landlord who uses a letting agent. I am also a lawyer, though not an expert in landlord & tenant law)

Her LL has today asked her to send a copy of her contract to him because he thinks it might differ from the one given to him by the agent. That's odd, is it not?
She's very keen to keep the LL on side.

OP posts:
RoadSignFool · 07/08/2023 13:42

Constantlybusy · 07/08/2023 13:23

Her LL has today asked her to send a copy of her contract to him because he thinks it might differ from the one given to him by the agent. That's odd, is it not?
She's very keen to keep the LL on side.

Show quote history

Not odd for him to ask for her copy to compare. But yes, obviously odd if the agent gave them different documents.

Original poster
Constantlybusy · 07/08/2023 14:44

RoadSignFool · 07/08/2023 13:42

Not odd for him to ask for her copy to compare. But yes, obviously odd if the agent gave them different documents.

Show quote history

Really concerned that both DD and LL are being scammed by the agent now. I've been doing some digging and can't find him on the Property Agent Checker (trading standards).

OP posts:
NumberTheory · 07/08/2023 17:59

If DD’s contract is with the LL (as is usual) not the agent, then the LL can give her written instruction to change where she pays the rent (i.e. directly to his bank account). He doesn’t need her to withhold rent to cut the agent out.

It may be the LL (and your DD) is getting scammed by agent, but the LL needs to get his act together and do this in a way that doesn’t require your DD to go against the contract she has. He is the “professional” in this situation and the provider of service, he should not be asking her to take on any risk to sort out a situation that his his responsibility.

WoolyMammoth55 · 07/08/2023 18:24

Hi OP, IANAL but just wondering - could your DD email the LL and say something like:

"Further to your visit of xxx date, I am writing to confirm your instructions for me to cease rental payments at your request.

I am keen to continue renting the property for the foreseeable future as per my existing tenancy agreement, and would therefore request that you give me alternative instructions on making rent payments with all speed so that I don't fall into arrears.

I also attach a copy of my signed tenancy agreement as requested."

That way she has it all in writing and would be (slightly?) covered if it ended up in any dispute situation?

Just a thought! Wish you all the best.

MillicentBystandr · 07/08/2023 18:55

Constantlybusy · 06/08/2023 20:02

My DD's landlord turned up on her doorstep and asked her not to pay her rent next week. He wants to get rid of his letting agent and told DD that she shouldn't pay her rent to help him out. He implied that the agent has increased her rent (twice) and pocketed the difference. The landlord said he hadn't asked for a rent increase and there were a couple of other issues where , apparently, DD and landlord were told different things by the agent.

Landlord is now saying that if DD helps him, he will provide new contract with a different agent and lower the rent. This feels very dodgy to me. He wants to cone back to talk to her and flatmate in a few days.

I have advised DD that her contract is with the letting agent and if she defaults on her rent she will be breaking her contract and making herself very vulnerable. She has 6 months remaining on her current tenancy agreement.

I am looking for legal advice to pass onto DD so that she acts with caution. Thank you.

Does she have proof the person on the doorstep is actually her landlord? This could be a scam.

RoadSignFool · 07/08/2023 19:15

NumberTheory · 07/08/2023 17:59

If DD’s contract is with the LL (as is usual) not the agent, then the LL can give her written instruction to change where she pays the rent (i.e. directly to his bank account). He doesn’t need her to withhold rent to cut the agent out.

It may be the LL (and your DD) is getting scammed by agent, but the LL needs to get his act together and do this in a way that doesn’t require your DD to go against the contract she has. He is the “professional” in this situation and the provider of service, he should not be asking her to take on any risk to sort out a situation that his his responsibility.

He’s the other party to the contract. He’s absolutely entitled to suggest to her that its terms be varied. He’s not inducing her to breach a contract with a third party. The tenant has zero contractual relationship with the agent and owes the agent no obligations.

What risk is he creating for the tenant here?

NumberTheory · 07/08/2023 19:25

RoadSignFool · 07/08/2023 19:15

He’s the other party to the contract. He’s absolutely entitled to suggest to her that its terms be varied. He’s not inducing her to breach a contract with a third party. The tenant has zero contractual relationship with the agent and owes the agent no obligations.

What risk is he creating for the tenant here?

Show quote history

He’s asking her, verbally, to simply not pay a month’s rent. That creates risk because it isn’t a way of varying the contract that she can rely on. If there is nothing in writing a court would probably not find it very believable that a landlord would ask a tenant to simply stop paying rent.

If he asks her to provide her rent to him at another bank account that is in his name, she can show any court (should there be any legal action at a later date) that she paid rent to him. And better yet, if he asks her in writing she can show that she changed the account she was paying into at his request.

She should not go against the terms of her current written contract without verifiable, written direction from him.