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Original poster

Death, no will. Who gets what?

86 replies

JanetJanets · 31/07/2023 12:33

Hi, advice gratefully received.

Scenario: married couple, one person dies intestate.
Property (main home) is solely in name of surviving spouse.
Surviving spouse has two children, both named as beneficiaries in Will.
Property (rented for income) is co-owned, 50% by deceased, 25% + 25% by two non-family members.
Deceased leaves small amount of cash + shares.
Deceased has two children, three stepchildren.
Where does the surviving spouse stand as far as inheritance is concerned?

OP posts:
ThroughGraceAlone · 31/07/2023 13:37

Tatzelwyrm · 31/07/2023 13:17

I dont think that's relevant (surviving spouse will)

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I might be wrong, but I think it relevant because op has willed everything upon her death to her own children. Meaning that if she were to inherent the whole estate of her deceased husband, the husbands biological children inherent nothing. Because upon op's death her whole estate (incl dead husbands estate) goes to her children, husbands step children.
Seems a bit unfair to me that their stepmom will get their dad's whole estate.

Lougle · 31/07/2023 13:39

ThroughGraceAlone · 31/07/2023 13:37

I might be wrong, but I think it relevant because op has willed everything upon her death to her own children. Meaning that if she were to inherent the whole estate of her deceased husband, the husbands biological children inherent nothing. Because upon op's death her whole estate (incl dead husbands estate) goes to her children, husbands step children.
Seems a bit unfair to me that their stepmom will get their dad's whole estate.

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On a moral/emotional level it may be relevant, but I think @Tatzelwyrm was saying that wills of other people aren't relevant to the rules of intestacy.

ThroughGraceAlone · 31/07/2023 13:40

Lougle · 31/07/2023 13:39

On a moral/emotional level it may be relevant, but I think @Tatzelwyrm was saying that wills of other people aren't relevant to the rules of intestacy.

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Yeah, no I totally get that. I meant morally

Original poster
JanetJanets · 31/07/2023 13:41

I believe that are joint tenants.

OP posts:
sorrynotathome · 31/07/2023 13:41

The children may be upset but their father didn’t make a will so it’s clearly his fault. Some people would be generous in this situation but others wouldn’t.

Original poster
JanetJanets · 31/07/2023 13:42

*they

OP posts:
saraclara · 31/07/2023 13:47

JanetJanets · 31/07/2023 13:21

So, would the deceased’s children have any claim to any of the estate?

Additionally, would the deceased’s 50% share of the rental property automatically go to the surviving spouse?

If the deceased was a joint tenant with the two non-family members, all of his/her 50% will be split between the other two. It won't be part of the estate at all. It happens automatically.

Thehobbit2013 · 31/07/2023 13:47

If the deeds state that they own the house unequally I.E 50%, 25%, 25% then they will own the property as tenants in common. In which case the deceased’s share will form part of his estate and will follow the i test act rules mentioned unthread

saraclara · 31/07/2023 13:52

Thehobbit2013 · 31/07/2023 13:47

If the deeds state that they own the house unequally I.E 50%, 25%, 25% then they will own the property as tenants in common. In which case the deceased’s share will form part of his estate and will follow the i test act rules mentioned unthread

Well spotted. Even if they put in unequal amounts, joint tenants have to have equal proportional interest in the property. So if the deeds state clearly that they have unequal shares, they have to be tenants in common.

LavenderfortheBees · 31/07/2023 13:59

If the rental property is joint tenants (think this is unlikely as joint tenants have equal shares so would be 33% each not 50:25:25) then the rental will go to the co-owners outside the estate and the spouse will get everything else.

If, as is more likely, the rental is held as tenants in common, then the 50% share will be in the estate and the rules on value as set out above will apply.

titchy · 31/07/2023 14:00

Spouse gets £322k the net value of the house, plus half of the value of the rest of the estate, including the 50% investment property. Quite possibly the children now own a Portion of the surviving spouses home.

Thehobbit2013 · 31/07/2023 14:10

titchy · 31/07/2023 14:00

Spouse gets £322k the net value of the house, plus half of the value of the rest of the estate, including the 50% investment property. Quite possibly the children now own a Portion of the surviving spouses home.

The surviving spouse already owns the house outright so the children would not be entitled to any share in that

Thehobbit2013 · 31/07/2023 14:11

saraclara · 31/07/2023 13:52

Well spotted. Even if they put in unequal amounts, joint tenants have to have equal proportional interest in the property. So if the deeds state clearly that they have unequal shares, they have to be tenants in common.

Show quote history

Oh and that should have read intestacy rules. Autocorrect!

kitchenplans · 31/07/2023 14:19

titchy · 31/07/2023 14:00

Spouse gets £322k the net value of the house, plus half of the value of the rest of the estate, including the 50% investment property. Quite possibly the children now own a Portion of the surviving spouses home.

How can the children own a portion of the surviving spouse's home when it is wholly held in surviving spouses name?

IANAL, but I believe that spouse owns their own home - this is not affected by their partner's death.

Surviving spouse will get all of the chattels.
Any money held in joint bank accounts will also go to the surviving joint account holder.

Deceased's estate will consist of
50% share of investment property (assuming held as TIC as previously discussed)
Any money or investments held in the sole name of the deceased.

The estate will then be split with the first £322k going directly to the surviving spouse.
The remainder over the £322k will then be split with 50% going to the surviving spouse, and the remaining 50% split between the deceased's biological or legally adopted children.

So unless the value of the half share in the investment property and money/investments held in the deceased's sole name are worth more than £322k, then the surviving spouse will inherit it all.

ThroughGraceAlone · 31/07/2023 14:21

kitchenplans · 31/07/2023 14:19

How can the children own a portion of the surviving spouse's home when it is wholly held in surviving spouses name?

IANAL, but I believe that spouse owns their own home - this is not affected by their partner's death.

Surviving spouse will get all of the chattels.
Any money held in joint bank accounts will also go to the surviving joint account holder.

Deceased's estate will consist of
50% share of investment property (assuming held as TIC as previously discussed)
Any money or investments held in the sole name of the deceased.

The estate will then be split with the first £322k going directly to the surviving spouse.
The remainder over the £322k will then be split with 50% going to the surviving spouse, and the remaining 50% split between the deceased's biological or legally adopted children.

So unless the value of the half share in the investment property and money/investments held in the deceased's sole name are worth more than £322k, then the surviving spouse will inherit it all.

Show quote history

wow, brutal to die intestate then. I wonder if the deceased knew he was leaving his children with nothing. A reminder to us all to have our wills updated!

tribpot · 31/07/2023 14:35

Surviving spouse has two children, both named as beneficiaries in Will.
...
Deceased has two children, three stepchildren.

Just wanted to check for clarity, is the three a typo? How can the deceased have three step-children if the surviving spouse has two children? Are the three step-children three other people via a previous marriage?

titchy · 31/07/2023 15:04

The surviving spouse already owns the house outright so the children would not be entitled to any share in that

How? The deceased owns it 100% therefore it forms part of their estate.

Original poster
JanetJanets · 31/07/2023 15:06

My mistake! Deceased has three children and two stepchildren and was married twice.

OP posts:
titchy · 31/07/2023 15:06

Oh ignore me - the surviving spouse owns the house. I was answering as if the deceased solely owned it Blush

saraclara · 31/07/2023 15:07

titchy · 31/07/2023 15:04

The surviving spouse already owns the house outright so the children would not be entitled to any share in that

How? The deceased owns it 100% therefore it forms part of their estate.

No. According to the OP, the surviving spouse already owns it. It's not part of the estate because it didn't belong to the deceased

Original poster
JanetJanets · 31/07/2023 15:13

As I understand, the value of the rental property and shares in the deceased’s name does not exceed £322K.
The property in which the deceased lived, which is solely in the name of the surviving spouse exceeds £700K.

OP posts:
Tatzelwyrm · 31/07/2023 15:19

JanetJanets · 31/07/2023 15:13

As I understand, the value of the rental property and shares in the deceased’s name does not exceed £322K.
The property in which the deceased lived, which is solely in the name of the surviving spouse exceeds £700K.

the property is not part of the desceaseds estate and has no relevance

saraclara · 31/07/2023 15:24

Tatzelwyrm · 31/07/2023 15:19

the property is not part of the desceaseds estate and has no relevance

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Yep. I'm going to take a stab at the OP being a child from the deceased's first marriage, who finds herself unprovided for (based purely on that second paragraph).

Chewbecca · 31/07/2023 15:43

I think the key here is to simplify and remove all the irrelevant facts.

What is the deceased’s estate? 50% TIC ownership of a rental property plus some cash and shares?

Then apply intestacy rules.

Sorry for your loss.

Tatzelwyrm · 31/07/2023 15:49

saraclara · 31/07/2023 15:24

Yep. I'm going to take a stab at the OP being a child from the deceased's first marriage, who finds herself unprovided for (based purely on that second paragraph).

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I think you are correct @JanetJanets who are you in this scenario