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Legal matters

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Domestic abuse concerning children

73 replies

Worrie54321 · 30/07/2023 23:14

Need some advice on what to do.

My partner and I have 2 children aged 1 and 3. He is fine with me but I am increasingly aware that he is not fine with the children - there are increasing numbers of incidents and initially I thought I could protect the children but I realise I can't. I have spoken to him and challenge him every time he does something and he will improve for a while but then get worse again. I am worried if I leave him he will get 50 50 or even some sole charge which currently I try to never leave him with them for more than an hour or so.

  1. I want to know, is what he does bad enough to count as abuse
  2. Is it bad enough that if we split he won't get sole charge of the children
  3. Will I be believed

He has hit them on occasion (not hard enough to make a mark)
He shouts very aggressively at them
He pushes them
He swears at them
He mocks and belittles them, calls them names
He won't comfort them if they're upset or hurt
He will grab them and squeeze or tickle them which seems like a game but they end up crying and genuinely upset more often than not.

He can be great at times but mostly he isn't to be honest. He never does bedtime, never gets up at night (well he has the odd time but after hearing him shout "why are you fucking crying" I don't ask him any more).

I think he'd hit them more if I wasn't there to stop him.

I am walking in eggshells all the time hoping one of them won't upset him.

Can anyone advise on points 1-3 above?

OP posts:
Lavender14 · 31/07/2023 01:19

As gently as I can op, there's no scenario where you need to hit or 'tap' a baby. There just isn't.

I know it's hard and really scary but you do need to leave him to protect your children.

Things you can do- ring the police and report him and have them remove him from your home.

Ring your local women's aid for support and guidance

Ring social services and get support from them to help you make the changes you need to make.

You've already addressed this with him and you've said that he's fine for a while then goes back to it which means he knows, he knows how it affects them, he knows how it affects you and he is choosing to continue anyway. This isn't on you, it's on him- it's his behaviour that's abusive. But unfortunately it's now left to you to manage it and the only way you can fully protect your children is by leaving him. Speak to a solicitor and think about how you get your affairs in order financially etc. Do you have separate accounts that you can pay into that he can't access. Do you have a friend or family you can stay with for a while until he's out of the house or you have somewhere sorted that's safe. If he's losing his temper that badly with a one year old then I'd be really concerned about him causing serious injury at some point.

If you document everything, report to social services and police and you are proactive in getting the right supports in place and have womens aid fighting your corner then I don't see why he'd get joint custody. I'd hope he'd get supervised custody and have to take some form of parenting course and anger management course before being allowed unsupervised. If it comes out in school or nursery or by neighbours that he's doing this, that you knew it was happening and didn't do anything to get him out then you'll be seen as failing to protect your kids and you'd be jeopardising your own access to your children so please don't take that risk. I don't say that to judge you, I know how hard it is to take these steps - but that's just the reality unfortunately.

MaxiPadd · 31/07/2023 03:31

Yes, it's abuse

Would you want to be sworn at, pushed, mocked and belittled, called names and sometimes hit but not hard enough to leave a mark? How would you feel about the world if you were defenceless and learning to expect this to happen to you and it being normal because mum doesn't do anything to stop it happening? Would it damage your worldview?

It would mine... and you do need to leave

It can be really hard to get through to the dv helplines though - do they have a text or email you could potentially reach out on for a callback?

Personally I think I'd take the kids to a children's centre if you live near any if you can't get through on helplines and ask staff for a cup of tea and explain your trying to get through but not getting through- they'll have contacts of DV workers

You can ring the NSPCC for a chat and probably get through faster if you want to talk over and confirm it's abuse - it is, but it doesn't seem like you can quite bear to see that yet

MaxiPadd · 31/07/2023 03:39

You might get supervised access for him for the kids initially but it probably would become unsupervised after he completed a parenting course

Would he bother though? He doesn't seem like he likes them

It gets complicated because you can end up with social services advising against things that a judge goes on to order - Like unsupervised visits but you'll get legal aid I would think to help figure this out

EverybodyLTB · 31/07/2023 03:55

I changed the locks on my EXH because of similar, and called the police. Called my council’s safeguarding team and they wouldn’t put anything in writing but my understanding from the conversation was that the onus was on him to take me to court and prove he was not abusive/a threat. Seek legal advice because I did lock out my EXH with a view to him then challenging me in court (he had no claim on my house, though). What he did was repeatedly send me abusive and incriminating messages and not bother with court or anything formal. I told him it was via court or nothing, and that I’d fight him and prove he was abusive. He then just stopped bothering with the texts and gave up.

Regardless of how it would have ended up if he’d have pursued access, no way would I have let him back through the door once I saw him turn from me onto my kids. The day he started on them, his time was well and truly up.

You need to protect your children in the first instance, deal with legal challenges after. Lock the animal out and call the police and say he’s been hitting your babies. If he wants to get back in, see the children, or anything at all he can take you to court. At least your kids will be physically and mentally safe while you arrange legal support.

HerAvatar · 31/07/2023 04:21

Rights of Women give free legal advice to women in your situation OP, I'm sorry I can't do links on here anymore (since the MN 'upgrade') but they're easy to find if you google. Also if it's the WA national number you're ringing it does get very busy but there are also local services which are often easier to get through to, although their lines are usually not 24 hour so do make sure you call when they're open. Again I can't link but there's a page on the WA website for local services, you just enter your area and it will give you contact details and opening hours Flowers

SadButStillTrue · 31/07/2023 04:38

Op, what you've described is exactly the reason I stayed in a bad marriage - I knew he'd fight for 50:50 and j wouldn't be there to protect them. I had to step in so many times and he even actually marked DC when hitting too hard.

But nobody did anything even though marking a Dc is illegal. Social workers were concerned about his parenting and put Dc as child in need status for a while. Police took no action as there was no proof and no witnesses, and they said a judge would turn a blind eye to just one or two episodes, especially if he claimed ignorance and regret (which he did).

But then he didn't like that I began to stand up to him and he got rid of me in terms of ending the relationship. And he went after 50:50.

I discussed with a domestic abuse organisation who organised a formal restraint order forbidding certain behaviours towards me and dc, and occupation order but both were very hard to get and the latter took a long time - we lived together while it was going ahead can you believe it, which was difficult but more tolerable than being apart because i could still be there for DC and it was better than leaving them alone together.

Eventually it went to court and DC now reside with me. The judge was critical and i think because the father doesn't see Dc as much as he wanted to, he makes an effort during their short time together. It's a shame because it's so acrimonious and i would prefer it not to be, but it's not my choice it's his.

My DC's age was a lot older than your two though, and that itself is a comfort to know they'd be likely to protest now. And vote with their feet by refusing contact. I don't know how that will go for younger children other than to say it WILL impact on them and it might be that it has to get worse before they can be properly protected. They went through a lot when we all lived together. Saw and heard things no child should see, hear or endure. I would have much rather protected any child of mine from this damage but I couldn't. You might not be able to either. But do try. Give it your all. Nobody else will if you don't and it might pay off, especially if they eventually complain themselves.

But it's a minefield as the new fathers right amendment trump card is parental alienation and they don't even need proof to accuse you of it. Judges seem to err on the side of more leniency to Dad than Mum on this one, so make sure you don't even appear to be negative about Dad. Don't gaslight your kids either though. Keep it real but restrained. And such good luck to you. I'm so sorry you're walking a path I’ve been down. They are dark days but I promise you it does pass and the dawn breaks eventually.

I now live in a better home, in an areas I prefer, closer to school and my family and friends and better then that, my DC sleeps under my roof safe. And DC can visit Dad and get the best of him, as, like I say, eventually he missed DC enough to make an effort now. Oh, and, importantly, there is something magical about knowing they're safe now - a child can begin to heal and they are so resilient that way, it happens fast. We did need counselling help though, which you can get through GP or school.

Worrie54321 · 31/07/2023 06:13

TossacointoHenryCavill · 31/07/2023 01:05

Gosh OP, I think you’re right to be worried.
I agree with everyone that he’s abusive. The problem is, I don’t know it he’s abusive enough to be denied unsupervised contact if you leave. It’s very easy for people on mumsnet to write ´get out now’ and much harder for you to actually figure out the safest course of action for your children. I think getting some outside help would be good. A call to somewhere like women’s aid might be a good first step. He really needs a parenting course of some kind. He’s not listening to you, so it needs to come from someone else. His way of parenting is ineffective and damaging to his kids wellbeing and to his relationship with them.
One thing to consider carefully is how safe you feel around him once you start getting outside help involved. If you report him to social services how will he react? If you think he’s likely to lash out at you then you may need to leave and deny contact until court ordered. It all hinges on authorities agreeing with your assessment that his parenting crosses the line from shit but not illegal into abusive and needing forced intervention. That bar is set very high (or low, depending on which way you’re looking at it).

Thank you for reading and understanding what I am saying.
I am not minimising anything.
It's difficult to get evidence as I don't know when he's going to do it. I would have to get a hidden camera. Is that even legal?

OP posts:
beccahamlet · 31/07/2023 06:33

I think people are misunderstanding the poster. She knows what is going on is not acceptable. She's not minimising, she's saying that her partner is minimising.
Her specific concern is that she's worried about their safety if she leaves and he gets unsupervised access.
This is the question she needs help with.

Soopermum1 · 31/07/2023 07:21

I agree with @beccahamlet. The OP is trying to look at it from the perspective of court/ authorities. There have been many cases where the behaviour is mimimised in court, or a parent is not believed. There is no evidence and her babies are too young to speak for themselves. She needs to be prepared, and putting her head into that potential scenario, and the thoughts/ opinions of an unsympathetic judge is a means of doing that.

OP you know this is abuse, call and call and call today, there are various abuse helplines, get your plan together quickly to protect your babies.

HerMammy · 31/07/2023 08:11

@beccahamlet
OP is minimising, she's trying to say it's a tap, no mark is left. Plenty of dead children had no marks.
This has been going on for 18mths and the OP has allowed it.

hahahahahahahahahah · 31/07/2023 08:43

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itsjustmeBobby · 31/07/2023 09:01

Record him doing it with your phone. Even if its only a voice recording.he cant deny then in the event that you do ( must ) take your children and leave him. NOW

Worrie54321 · 31/07/2023 09:06

HerMammy · 31/07/2023 08:11

@beccahamlet
OP is minimising, she's trying to say it's a tap, no mark is left. Plenty of dead children had no marks.
This has been going on for 18mths and the OP has allowed it.

You clearly haven't read my posts. Go back and read again. If I thought there was no problem I wouldn't have started this thread. Some of the replies make me think my fears are justified. If I leave and he gets 50 50 custody or even every other weekend then that would be a million times worse. He has money and can pay for legal representation.

If you are just going to give judgemental, hysterical, unhelpful replies then please go elsewhere.

If you have actual practical advice that may help me to get out of this hellish situation then I will be very grateful

OP posts:
Worrie54321 · 31/07/2023 09:07

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This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Thank you for your reply

OP posts:
Worrie54321 · 31/07/2023 09:08

@Soopermum1 @beccahamlet thank you

OP posts:
BlastedPimples · 31/07/2023 09:09

Hi @Worrie54321 I feel your pain and worry.

This is one reason why I didn't divorce my toe-rag of an ex sooner. I was worried about how he would behave when I wasn't there.

Record him when he's horrendous to your dcs. Discreetly obviously but make sure you record. Take recordings to the police/ social worker etc.

Can you intervene at all? It's so scary. And awful that courts are not geared towards protecting children but chasing this fanciful 50/50 policy regardless of the parents behaviour.

Shoemadlady · 31/07/2023 09:11

The behaviour you're describing is abuse and you're consorting with that behaviour by staying. You need to leave and protect your children. He should also be reported to the police

Justrolledmyeyesoutloud · 31/07/2023 09:13

Only a tap?? That is massively minimising his despicable behaviour op.

Fucking hate men who pick on vulnerable children ..he woukdn't do it to a bloke his own size now would he?

Please get help asap and stay safe yourself too.

YukoandHiro · 31/07/2023 09:14

I think you need to try to video some of what is happening so that you have a case for sole custody. In your position I would be absolutely equally concerned that they ended up with 50/50 after a split and then you'd have no knowledge of what was your going on or be there to intervene

TossacointoHenryCavill · 31/07/2023 09:17

HerMammy · 31/07/2023 08:11

@beccahamlet
OP is minimising, she's trying to say it's a tap, no mark is left. Plenty of dead children had no marks.
This has been going on for 18mths and the OP has allowed it.

No, you’re misunderstanding. She’s saying he’s hitting the kids, she’s uncomfortable with it and has told him it’s not on. He is calling it ´a tap’ not her. She is talking about not leaving marks because that is how the example of what would not be considered ´reasonable discipline’ or whatever the technical term is legally. In Scotland and Wales smacking children has been made illegal but in England it has not. It sounds to me like if she knew leaving tomorrow would prevent him ever hurting her kids then she’d have done it yesterday. She’s worried her leaving will mean he has the kids unsupervised and she won’t be there to swoop in and handle the tantrums and nightly wake ups and all the things that set off his anger.

overdogged · 31/07/2023 09:19

Hi OP, I'm a child protection social worker who now works in the family court. What you're describing isn't domestic abuse, it's child abuse. Your first port of call needs to be your local authority's multi-agency safeguarding hub (MASH) - the social workers in the area team will come out and do an assessment and take it from there. You need to get your tiny children away from this man, he is abusing them and causing harm. Take all the help that's offered, please.

Worrie54321 · 31/07/2023 12:39

TossacointoHenryCavill · 31/07/2023 09:17

No, you’re misunderstanding. She’s saying he’s hitting the kids, she’s uncomfortable with it and has told him it’s not on. He is calling it ´a tap’ not her. She is talking about not leaving marks because that is how the example of what would not be considered ´reasonable discipline’ or whatever the technical term is legally. In Scotland and Wales smacking children has been made illegal but in England it has not. It sounds to me like if she knew leaving tomorrow would prevent him ever hurting her kids then she’d have done it yesterday. She’s worried her leaving will mean he has the kids unsupervised and she won’t be there to swoop in and handle the tantrums and nightly wake ups and all the things that set off his anger.

Exactly. Currently they are ok, partner is sometimes great, often silent, sometimes pushes them around or shouts, but I am always there to intervene. It is hugely stressful. As they get older it's more difficult, the older one is starting to become aware that things aren't right, I don't think he would articulate that to a stranger though. Both are doing well in nursery etc, no one has any concerns there.
The emotional side is worse than the physical.

OP posts:
Worrie54321 · 31/07/2023 12:40

overdogged · 31/07/2023 09:19

Hi OP, I'm a child protection social worker who now works in the family court. What you're describing isn't domestic abuse, it's child abuse. Your first port of call needs to be your local authority's multi-agency safeguarding hub (MASH) - the social workers in the area team will come out and do an assessment and take it from there. You need to get your tiny children away from this man, he is abusing them and causing harm. Take all the help that's offered, please.

Thank you for this helpful advice

OP posts:
HerMammy · 31/07/2023 13:13

Currently they are ok, partner is sometimes great, often silent
I'm sorry but OP is allowing this to happen now, nothing is great about a man who kicks a baby, stop dithering and go. These kids are not ok when they're at risk of abuse.

2023issucky · 31/07/2023 19:33

Your children are NOT okay! They are being abused and you are allowing it.
They may not be showing signs now but I promise you they are being damaged and the longer you allow this to happen the worse it will be.
Take these children and leave now. Call child services on him and leave.