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Vandalism by neighbour's Airbnb guests

59 replies

JustFiveMinutesPeace · 22/07/2023 08:18

It's emerged in the last couple of days that the landlords two doors down have decided to rent out their home to short term lettings guests (possibly Airbnb but I can't find a listing). We found this out after their guests were walking along the top of my garden wall, staring into my house, egged a neighbour's car and smashed glass outside.

I understand the neighbour delegated responsibility to an agent who put it on a short term lettings platform, who rented it to the council, who placed late teens/early 20s young adults with known behaviour problems and zero supervision. It's a nice area and not the sort of place you expect problems of this nature.

My biggest concern is that my livelihood is parked on my driveway: a street food van that's very conspicuous (people literally take photos when I'm minding my own business driving down the road) and a 50 year old classic so potentially very difficult to find spare parts for, especially if it was a windscreen. If it's off the road, I can't work, I'd have to cancel people's wedding catering (I'm doing two weddings today alone), and it would be devastating on multiple levels in the middle of the summer peak season.

If the neighbours short term lettings business results in my classic street food van being vandalised, do I have a claim against the landlord for the repair work and loss of earnings? I'm potentially insured for vandalism but not loss of earnings - and I don't want to claim and then have my premiums go even higher (£1200 this year). No point going after the guests; they won't have two pennies to run together.

I'm really very worried and don't know how to protect myself and my livelihood.

OP posts:
FannyFifer · 22/07/2023 08:20

Have you no where else you could park it that is safer?

JaukiVexnoydi · 22/07/2023 08:29

If I were you I would be investing in some increased security for the vehicle. If its that vital to your work it's silly to have it parked where its open to being damaged like that. Round our way lockup garages can be rented for as little as £30 per week. You should rent a garage and account for it as a business expense, dividing the annual cost between the typical number of events you do in a year and adding that amount to your costs.

JustFiveMinutesPeace · 22/07/2023 08:30

FannyFifer · 22/07/2023 08:20

Have you no where else you could park it that is safer?

It's off road, on my driveway in a nice middle class neighbourhood. It shouldn't need to be any more secure than that.

I do put her into dry storage over the winter, when we don't really trade, but
A) you can only move the vehicle Monday to Friday 9-5, and as most of my trade is done on evenings and weekends she'd still end up on my driveway 4-7 nights a week
B) there's no electricity there, and I need electricity to be able to run the fridges; at a minimum it needs to be hooked up the night before an event, and hook up is only available on my driveway
C) the stock is stored in my house so she has to come here to be loaded up
D) the winter storage is several miles away and very inconveniently located
E) it's expensive

So in summary for a host of practical reasons, no, she can't be stored elsewhere during the summer peak trading season.

OP posts:
JustFiveMinutesPeace · 22/07/2023 08:32

I forgot to add that it's so tall (well over 2.5m) that it won't fit in a domestic garage, so looking for an alternative more local option is off the cards.

OP posts:
WunWun · 22/07/2023 08:34

Get a Ring doorbell and have cameras around you whole house/covering the driveway. Document everything that happens.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 22/07/2023 08:35

Even if you could in theory claim against the landlord for loss of earnings, surely it would almost certainly be difficult to prove it was them. ‘This is a nice area apart from that one group of residents’ isn’t going to get you very far as evidence.

JustFiveMinutesPeace · 22/07/2023 08:39

WunWun · 22/07/2023 08:34

Get a Ring doorbell and have cameras around you whole house/covering the driveway. Document everything that happens.

I've got a Ring doorbell, though I'm considering adding a second for coverage from a second angle of the driveway.

But... let's just say vandalism has occurred, I have it on CCTV and it was undoubtedly the Airbnb neighbours. I've got a £3000 repair bill, I've had to cancel bookings worth £5000, and someone has left a shitty Facebook review about their ruined wedding so I've got reputational damage to boot.

Can I pursue the landlord for the repair bill and loss of income?

OP posts:
TenOhSeven · 22/07/2023 08:44

This isn't making sense. It's not going to be an Airbnb if it's got vulnerable young adults in it.
Do you have gates over your driveway?

Clymene · 22/07/2023 08:45

I don't see why not. I was awarded compensation for loss of earnings when someone lost control of their car and drove into my front garden. I work from home and had to cancel my work for the morning as I was dealing with the driver/clean up/ police etc. their insurance company paid although they admitted liability from the outset. Might be more tricky if they don't. You would need cast iron proof of guilt though so you really need you van to be covered by cameras. I'm surprised you don't already have that.

IdSell · 22/07/2023 08:45

Can't you up your security. A bigger fence, a gate at the end of your drive and more obvious CCTV and alarms?

DidyouNO · 22/07/2023 08:47

I feel for you. We live in a lovely area where houses are top price bracket. New neighbours have spent a fortune on their house but allow their teenage children to play music very loud at all hours, the smell of weed is disgustingly strong most days and the cars revving and general noise is life changing and very stressful. I have no clue what to do about any of it but we now have CCTV, extra locks and security. We keep the peace and are polite so we can gently say but it feels like if provoke more trouble for mentioning anything. We're thinking of moving.

Justonemorecoffeeplease · 22/07/2023 08:47

What about having an awning/ cover over your catering van? Would that perhaps discourage them. At the very least it would hide what’s underneath and any potential vandals would have to spend a fair amount of time taking it off.

NetZeroZealot · 22/07/2023 08:48

It's clearly not an AirBnB - why did you put that in the headline?

Chchchanges23 · 22/07/2023 08:48

Many years since I practised law, but my feeling is a resounding No.
You’re basically saying the landlord should have foresight that damage might occur, due to the ‘type’ of guest, therefore they hold some responsibility. You’ll get nowhere with that, but even if you did surely it would be assigned something like 30% landlord, 70% guests. Purely academic, because a court would be interested in who committed the damage which caused the loss. That causation is your issue. Have you mitigated the loss? Insurance, safe storage of vehicle etc.
Sorry, sounds like a very worrying issue. Can you get a vehicle cover, or would that not be practical?

drpet49 · 22/07/2023 08:49

FannyFifer · 22/07/2023 08:20

Have you no where else you could park it that is safer?

It is parked on the OPs drive! They shouldn’t have to move it elsewhere 🙄

drpet49 · 22/07/2023 08:50

JustFiveMinutesPeace · 22/07/2023 08:39

I've got a Ring doorbell, though I'm considering adding a second for coverage from a second angle of the driveway.

But... let's just say vandalism has occurred, I have it on CCTV and it was undoubtedly the Airbnb neighbours. I've got a £3000 repair bill, I've had to cancel bookings worth £5000, and someone has left a shitty Facebook review about their ruined wedding so I've got reputational damage to boot.

Can I pursue the landlord for the repair bill and loss of income?

No, I don’t see how you can pursue the landlord. You would pursue the individuals who caused the damage. Not the landlord.

Clymene · 22/07/2023 08:56

Oh sorry I didn't really read your post. I don't think you could sue the landlord any more than you could sue a landlord if eg the longterm tenant of the flat upstairs damaged your property. Your claim would be against the person who caused the damage surely?

MrDobbs · 22/07/2023 08:58

Criminal responsibility lies with the person committing the crime. A landlord isn't responsible and liable for the actions of their tenant, unless the landlord specifically instructed those tenants to go and do criminal acts. So no, you can't ask for compensation from the landlord. Your only options are security and insurance.

BarbaraVineFan · 22/07/2023 09:04

Why not just cover it with a tarpaulin or similar, well tied down? I shouldn't imagine the people you describe would go to the trouble of taking a cover off to damage it.

JustFiveMinutesPeace · 22/07/2023 09:18

This isn't making sense. It's not going to be an Airbnb if it's got vulnerable young adults in it.

Councils in Wales, where I am, are placing looked after children in Airbnbs due to a lack of alternatives like foster care or children's homes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10982665/Children-young-11-Airbnbs-B-B-accommodation-Wales-Video.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59147367.amp

I'm not sure which short term lettings platform it's on, so I've used Airbnb as a shorthand, but landlord has told me it's a short term let. I don't think they had any idea who would be coming in, which calls into question their ability to vet future occupants.

Do you have gates over your driveway?

Unfortunately not. We only moved here a year ago and spent all our money on buying the house and then getting the kitchen up to a standard that keeps Environmental Health happy. What little was left went when someone wrote off my car for me in the same week we completed and I had to replace it!

Gates aren't in the budget right now - and gates aren't going to keep out even mildly determined people, nor prevent them throwing missiles over the gate (like the eggs thrown at a neighbour's car).

What about having an awning/ cover over your catering van? Would that perhaps discourage them. At the very least it would hide what’s underneath and any potential vandals would have to spend a fair amount of time taking it off.

I'll have to look into it, but in reality the van is literally twice as tall as me (it's big, I'm tiny), so I have no idea how I'd get it on and off single handedly. A stepladder would be the bare minimum, if I could manage it at all.

I don't even know if I could get a cover the right size and shape - it's a rare classic, not a Ford Fiesta, so Halfords won't stock it!

Your claim would be against the person who caused the damage surely?

You can't get blood from a stone, unfortunately. It's also possible they're under 18 (hard to tell by looking at them from a distance in the dark).

I did fear this would be the answer. Why is it that my business has to be insured up to the hilt - public liability insurance, product liability insurance, employers liability insurance, specialist vehicle insurance - but short term lettings businesses appear to be allowed to act with impunity?

Children as young as 11 are being put in Airbnbs in Wales

Children as young as 11 are being put in Airbnbs and B&B accommodation in Wales, as record numbers enter the care system, as pressures lead to more children housed in temporary arrangements.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10982665/Children-young-11-Airbnbs-B-B-accommodation-Wales-Video.html

OP posts:
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 22/07/2023 09:21

A tarpaulin would be tricky to get on and off but I am sure you could come up with a way if you put your mind to it. It doesn’t have to be a specifically fitted cover, just something to cover up most of your van and make it look less interesting.

Grimbelina · 22/07/2023 09:28

Look at Eufy cameras, fantastic quality, a good app and no monthly fees. I think you probably will experience vandalism at some point... and you may need better insurance and a better storage option than the drive. It would be stressful all around to pursue anyone for the costs etc. and may not even succeed, so best to prevent loss as much as possible

prh47bridge · 22/07/2023 09:37

A landlord can sometimes be held liable for a tenant's actions, but the bar for this is very high. If they are not aware of the problems, they are definitely not liable, so your first step is to make sure they are aware. That doesn't guarantee they will be liable. Even if they are liable, the primary liability lies with those who cause any damage.

pisspants · 22/07/2023 09:48

Not sure of the exact size of your van but am guessing its caravan/motorhome sized? Maybe a cover for one of those would fit your van? I appreciate it may not be that easy to get it on but if the alternative is stress and possible damage/loss of earnings etc then it may be worth it. Is there a local tall teenager you could pay a few quid to to put the cover on each time?

IWFH · 22/07/2023 09:50

The problem is that a vehicle of the type you are describing is always at risk of vandalism/theft if left outside. While you perceive your risk has increased due to some dodgy neighbours, you have always had a risk in place.

You are running a business, you cover this risk by increased insurance or better still paying for your van to be stored inside. If your business can't afford either of those options then you just have to carry the risk yourself. Sorry, but that's the reality of running a business.

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