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Legal matters

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Horse matter sold without my permission.

10 replies

BambiSea22 · 24/06/2023 23:43

Not sure if this is the best place to ask on but I’m having to wait until Monday to try to speak with a solicitor and just want to try get as much knowledge as I can on the next steps and in all honesty my anxiety is sky high and I’m heartbroken more than I even imagined to be so…

Basically I’ve owned a horse for many many years, but legally she’s in my parents name. We loaned her out a short time ago and recently the person loaning offered to buy her which I refused. I told them to let me know what happens with it as I said if this person doesn’t want to loan her anymore bc she wants to buy her I’m not willing to sell so you need to tell me so I can start organising taking my horse back myself. The following weeks I continuously asked what had happened with the situation and either got avoided or said everything was fine, only to recently realise my mother has “sold” the horse behind my back. But on a payment plan. She said she hasn’t signed the horse over in the “buyer’s” name until full payment is received, but not sure if that is true or not. The woman hasn’t even afforded to pay half of the bill so God knows how she’s gonna take care of the horse especially on any serious event seeing as horses are very expensive so… No idea why they have even rushed the sale when she clearly can’t afford it and I said to wait honestly none of it makes sense and I don’t understand why they’ve done all this I’m distraught and genuinely feel sick from the stress of it all. Anyways been going back and forth with my mother and she has finally agreed with me and regrets her decision she has agreed to try to help me get my horse back. Please is it possible to cancel the sale ? I’m obviously willing to return the entirety of what she has paid so far even though I’m not the one who has received that money I just want my horse back. From what I have seen in my experience in the horse world nothing is worth the paper it’s written on, the contract seems very amateur and has not involved or signed by a solicitor so…

Does anyone know what kind of rights I have here or if I stand a chance ? 😞 Thank you x

OP posts:
twoandcooplease · 25/06/2023 00:24

Wait
It's your horse but in your mums name so legally on paper it's hers?

Then she's gone behind your back and sold it to s woman who up till now has been renting the horse from you (legally dm)

No money has exchanged hands
No paperwork handed over or documents signed
Just a conversation and gentleman's agreement?

I'm not legal at all but I think you are safe since no money passed over it was just talks

Now you just have to get the horse back!

Btw, what do they rent it for? I didn't know that was a thing!
And also, why can't the paperwork be in your name? If it can be you should do this. You don't want your mum slighting your again

A conversation with her about not selling your things to people need to be had. She's overstepped entirely. Why does horse renter woman's want for your horse trump you already saying no??

Needapadlockonmyfridge · 25/06/2023 00:27

Are you a BHS member? If so they have a legal helpline.

nocoolnamesleft · 25/06/2023 00:47

It doesn't sound like you have any legal standing in this. But if your mum now agrees with you, what you need to find out is whether your mother has the right to cancel the sale.

BambiSea22 · 25/06/2023 02:14

Thank you all. Yeah I don’t think I have a legal standing but as my mum has agreed to help me I am hoping she does … And a small amount of money has been exchanged, they have made a contract with the payment being in instalments, the woman has only paid even less than half of the price of the sale price of the horse. My mum says she hasn’t handed ownership over but I don’t know whether that is true to be honest but as the payment hasn’t been completed regardless I was hoping something could still be done. My mum has had a lot of pressure and stress from the yard owner etc. And she basically feared I wouldn’t take the horse back and that loanee of the horse would back out entirely so she didn’t want to be stuck with a horse she didn’t want. It all makes no sense to me I honestly can’t understand it, she hasn’t relieved herself of any stress just gained more by doing this behind my back… And at least if she still intended to sell why not halt the sale until the woman has the full amount why rush it it all makes 0 sense and I’m just overwhelmed by it all tbh.

And yes you can basically “rent” horses ! They just call it loaning. Some people take a payment for loaning their horse out but we didn’t the woman just had full responsibility over his costs and also almost full freedom with him as if she were her own only in our name legally. So really it makes no sense why she even changed her mind but she claimed she was worried we would want the horse back which is kind of weird in itself IMO to have the desire to trap us out of getting him back if we wished when she could’ve just gone out and separately bought her own horse from the start or even ended the loan and done that without putting us in a difficult situation but ok ! It’s all so frustrating I don’t even know where to start with it all tbh.

OP posts:
Flatandhappy · 25/06/2023 02:28

If the person who is buying your horse hasn’t made the payments as agreed in the contract then you may be able to argue the contract is void, as it is your mother’s name she will need to be the person to deal with it. Do talk to a solicitor but I would have thought you had a good chance of getting your horse back (used to do contract law but some time ago).

Flatandhappy · 25/06/2023 02:29

Sorry, not void, she is in breach. Bad night’s sleep!!!!

CiderJolly · 25/06/2023 02:37

I don’t understand why you want to keep a horse if someone else has been looking after it. Won’t the horse have a better bond with the lady looking after it? If you want it why haven’t you bought it from your mum and why aren’t you taking care of the horse?

marmaladeslade · 25/06/2023 03:02

Did you loan the horse out for financial reasons?

PatchworkDonkey · 25/06/2023 03:05

Btw, what do they rent it for? I didn't know that was a thing!

Occasionally it's a lease of an expensive competition or breeding animal that the people couldn't afford to buy.

Usually it's a loan, ie not renting as such and no payment goes to the owner, but the person taking on the horse pays for all the expenses related to it's care. It's a way of retaining ownership of a horse you can't afford to/don't want to keep any more. So you can keep an eye on its welfare and take back or PTS if there's any issues, you lose this control if you sell. You may also know in advance you want the horse back at some point eg after pregnancy, when the busy phase in your career is over, when you return from travelling or university etc.

The person taking the horse on effectively gets a horse for free.

The downside is they don't own it and could get emotionally attached or put a lot of effort into training it, then the owner decides they want it back. They may have to comply with terms set by the owner regarding use of the horse (activities it can participate in) and methods of keeping it. Usually these specifications concern the horses welfare and best interests, sometimes they concern an overly fussy owner and are a nuisance.

The upside is they don't own it, so if the horse becomes unable to work through age, injury or infirmity, or their life circumstances change meaning they can't afford/look after/ride a horse any more, they can simply hand it back to the owner if they wish. They also don't incur the costs to PTS at end of life, which can be considerable.

OP IANAL but I suspect you won't get anywhere with this.

I understand your parents bought a horse "for you" but realistically if they never officially gifted it to you by signing a receipt transferring the horse to you, or putting the passport into your name etc, then it looks as though legally they intended to retain ownership themselves. You've got nothing to prove the horse is yours. Did you ever pay for all the expenses of keeping it yourself and have full and final decisions on its care? If you did and can prove it perhaps you might get somewhere arguing that it's your horse. Unfortunately I don't think you'll ever see the horse again.

Your parents have fallen for a common scam. Horses aren't sold on payment plans because generally people who ask for that don't have the money to buy a horse, don't have much spare money at all (for all the non-horsey people reading, it's a total myth that horse people are rich, most are totally skint after basic horse related costs and basic human life related costs. Plenty earn only minimum wage, don't really have a career etc) and have no desire to part with what they do have. They secure agreement for a payment plan, pay some of the money, then cease payment, claiming they now own the horse and have paid for it. As you say, the shoddy contracts people draw up aren't worth the paper they're written on and possession is 9/10 of the law, as the saying goes. They have most likely already moved the horse to a new location.

Nobody really ever enforced horse passport rules anyway, the government only brought them in in the first place due to an EU ruling about food chain animals (which in many countries horses are). Post Brexit I image the government cares about horse passports even less than it did before. The person who has the horse is unlikely to care about it at all, it's not going to stop them having the horse treated by a vet, PTS, sold etc and if they've no money I don't suppose they'll be into competing at a high level where the governing bodies of the sport or the people running the competition might want to see the passport.

PickledPurplePickle · 25/06/2023 05:49

Has she kept up with the payment plan in the contract or not?

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