Legal training/education at 40?

[WannabeLawyer]

To give some background, I did A Level law and was keen to be a lawyer. However I had never done any kind of interview training and fluffed the interview for Oxford. As I was insistent on Oxbridge I decided to reapply the next year for Cambridge where I got in to study Computer Science. However I had to drop out for personal reasons, and got an OU degree in Computer Science instead.

After working as an IT consultant I ended up in Indonesia, and eventually recently have been studying for an Indonesian OU law degree (i.e. one from the Open University of Indonesia, which relates to Indonesian law and is taught in Indonesian).

In September I will be back in the UK and am considering a GDL. I can afford this but I am not quite clear where it will take me. I am not really clear about my employability in the UK. I could certainly also continue with IT-related work which should be fairly remunerative, however I suppose a legal career appeals to me more at this point.

I have read lots of statements about there being a surfeit of people with legal education in the UK, unable to qualify.

I have read lots of statements about there being a surfeit of people with legal education in the UK, unable to qualify.

This is true, sadly, and a bit of a scandal in that law schools take on pretty much anyone irrespective of whether they have a realistic chance of qualifying.

Do you know what area of law you'd like to go into and what sort of firm (assuming you want to be a solicitor)?

There is certainly more people doing the gdl than there are jobs available. I would think very carefully about what you would do after the gdl

I dont know if understanding computer science would be helful in terms if there must be a growing area of law around things that didnt exist even 10 years ago. Obviously the job is law but being able to understand what your client is on about might help

If you are willing to use your IT knowledge within the area of law you wish to practice you would be more marketable than many 23 year olds embarking on a GDL/sqe path.

Search STEM lawyers on Google and see what Chambers has to say and the Future STEM lawyers group.

I was thinking more about being a barrister than a solicitor, but recognize that this is a more difficult route.

In Indonesia I've been attracted to the law due to the sort of legal vacuum here - you can access accurate legal information online in the UK pretty easily, but it's not really available here, and foreigners tend to get into legal messes, so I've found it interesting to inform myself of the law.

I have only been doing the Indonesian law degree for a year (so just over 1/4 of the way through), but it has enhanced my interest. Obviously foreign firms invest in Indonesia; there is about an equal volume of trade between the UK and Indonesia as between Australia and Indonesia although Australia has closer links in reality. There are quite a few tech startups in Indonesia, although more likely to be based in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, rather than the UK.

I don't really know what I would do, I suppose this is the problem, but I would be happy to deal with STEM-related stuff, I enjoy most kind of tech, maths, sciences, etc. And obviously I speak Indonesian fluently, although perhaps that's rather too esoteric to be of much use?

@WannabeLawyer My DD is a barrister. As you have identified, it’s very competitive.

You would need to do the GDL, as you say, and then the Barrister Training course. These two courses cost a lot! So, there are ways of getting help with funds. The Inns of Court offer scholarships for both. The main thing is to get one for the BTC. That demonstrates you have potential.

You can apply for pupillage before you start the BTC. Most don’t get one but some do. So you need to do your homework on how and where to apply. Many students will have done mini pupillages with target Chambers. Can you apply? You need to look into this.

I would look very carefully at what law/cases a Chambers is involved with. Target the most appropriate. You need to network and use the careers service at your law college here.

It won’t be easy. The majority of barristers here are RG university educated. A high proportion are Oxbridge. You have had a different educational route so you are going to have to play to your strengths. Also, don’t underestimate the 23-24 year olds. Before they start pupilage, some will be doing the MLaw at Cambridge! See if this is for you!! The competition might have it.

The areas you might consider are criminal or commercial - there isn’t stem law.

Ive just had an online quote from Goodtogo insurance because of this. Two medical issues with medication. Quote was very reasonable

Sorry wrong thread

There certainly are lawyers specialising in STEM issues. I’m currently advertising a role for a Technology lawyer to join my team to lead on AI and similar issues. You can also have lawyers specialising in patents who require a scientific or engineering background for example.

OP could check out this website

https://www.stemfuturelawyers.co.uk/about

@Katrinawaves The op says she wanted to be a barrister. Often that means you take the cases you are given. It’s a niche area and few get into a niche area directly after pupilage. I didn’t say her expertise wasn’t useful but look at the training course for barristers - it’s very general. Then she needs to find a chambers specialising in what she wants to do. That will be quite hard. Also being a barrister isn’t solely what you know about stem. It’s about advocating for your client and the law. I pointed out two broad areas of law that courts deal with where stem knowledge might be useful . Civil law might be another area .

With your background, the other option to investigate is legal tech, which is a huge growth area, or knowledge management. KM might require a further Masters but it’s a solid career and more and more firms are investing in legal tech at the moment. Look at firms like Mishcon or Bird & Bird to see what they are doing.

Your initial comment rejected the concept that there was any such thing as STEM law or any websites which supported candidates from these backgrounds which is what I was challenging.

I of course agree that getting a start at the bar is harder in all circumstances as the number of pupillages available is smaller. That’s the case whatever your academic background but there are chambers who specialise more in STEM related legal areas and obviously legal candidates with a good scientific background will be more likely to be considered for pupillages in these sets.

One example is

https://www.atkinchambers.com/stem-at-the-bar-transitioning-from-science-to-law-lucie-briggs/

@Katrinawaves Yes but getting in is very difficult. One swallow does not a summer make. Most people who hold the Barrister qualification do not practice. On the Pupillage Gateway you get ten choices. Finding 10 tech chambers could be a challenge. It can also take several rounds before barristers get pupillage. It’s extremely competitive.

I think you need to talk to people! Write to people in UK firms with an Indonesian arm, or lawtech firms, or UK firms you like the look of, with a brief description of your background and asking for five minutes of their time, or asking say three specific questions.

Not everyone will respond, but some will. You might even get job offers out of it.

I'm a legal dropout, the reality of law courses is that you're far more likely to wind up with a heap of debt or being a paralegal on peanuts for years (I was on £17k, would have dropped to £15k if I took a training contract) than fulfilling your dream.

Tbh even if you make it then legal practice is dull and stressful and often incompatible with a full and balanced life. I'd recommend doing some kind of work in a law firm to see what it's like before committing fully.

Law is a bit like teaching, people get disillusioned and want purpose in life and so sign up for the course, thinking they'll make a difference to the world. Really it's a licence to print money for the law colleges and there aren't enough jobs, and where there are jobs only a tiny fraction offer fulfillment. Sorry to be gloomy!

Also Atkins are a construction specialist set. Lucie does construction law. She started directly from university/BTc. She’s been qualified for 20 years. She’s gone in via a fairly traditiinal route, except she has a chemistry degree from Kings College London. Not OU. It’s not impossible to do what the Op wants but it won’t be easy.