Family property nightmare

[lookslikeabombhitit]

Any property advice please? It's long and complicated I'm afraid but don't want to give too many details as I think I'd be easily identified! We're trying to access free legal support through clinics but are just trying to assess what to do in the meantime...

DH had a house signed over to him 20 years ago by grandparents. He is the only person on the deeds. There is no mortgage on the property and no conditions attached to the deeds that we have accessed on the land registry. We don't live in the house. Family do. No financial benefit is taken from the house by DH. A relative (occupant) now wants to be on the deeds and has produced a TR1 for DH to sign...

My question is- does being the sole person named on the deeds mean you are the owner? Are there any documents (i.e. a will or anything like conditions/terms written by a solicitor) that would supersede the deeds and force DH to sign it over? There is no trust set up about the house to our knowledge- is there a way to find out if there is one? We haven't seen the grandparents will- if the grandparent said in their will they wanted the house to be signed over to relative would that be enforceable as they're not on the deeds?

We're not trying to be grabby! This is a really horrible situation to be in as there's no "benefit" for us in any of the scenarios we can think of, it's created a massive family drama and has the very real potential of us being left destitute if DH signs this bloody house over to keep the peace as we lose the only thing keeping us afloat at the moment (UC- house currently eligible for disregard as a capital asset due to occupants, if he signs it over it'll be seen as deprivation of assets/capital).

How long has this family member lived in the home? Why haven't you been charging them rent? Who has been paying for the upkeep?

I am not a lawyer, but if dh is the only name on the deeds, it's his house and no-one has any claim on ownership. There might be an entitlement for the tenant to live there til death.

Don’t sign the TR1; it’ll cause massive problems. It’s usually used to transfer legal title (ownership) of the property so giving it to the relative/occupant and completely cutting out your DH. He would no longer own the house or have any financial interest in it. As well as causing you problems with UC , there could be other financial & tax implications for your DH. Also, what’s occupant’s relationship to DH grandparents, who maintains the house or pays for its upkeep? See a solicitor before you sign or agree to anything.

Of course he shouldn’t give the house away! Or even become co-owner. Unless he has his own reasons for wanting to do so.

Was the house signed over when the GPS were still alive it did your DH inherit it!

It could be that the occupant was granted a life interest to live in the property? That would have had to be in the Will. How did they come to be there? Someone with life interest does not pay rent, but they are responsible for all bills and upkeep.

Is there any emotional or moral reason why your DH would feel he should give away all or partial rights to the house? He really must not sign anything without proper advice.

For example if he did sign in order to share ownership with the family member, if ownership was registered as ‘joint tenants’ rather than ‘tenants in common’ and something happened to your DH the co owner would automatically become full owner. Your DH could not leave his share to you or his children.

If the house was signed over to your DH when the grandparents were still alive then surely it became his property at that point. It couldn't be part of the grandparents' will’s because it was no longer a part of their estate.
You can search for anyone's will online, it's only £1.50 to download the will/probate if you want to check what they said probatesearch.service.gov.uk

It’s your husbands house, SIGN NOTHING!

EVER.

EVER.

Current house occupant's are one grandparent and three relatives. Grandparent pays 50% of bills and other occupant's pay the rest. They have lived there since 2002ish. The family member who has produced the TR1 is DH mother.... They have a very difficult relationship. 🤦🏼‍♀️ DH lived in the house from being 4 to 26 and was raised by grandparents. Both grandparents were alive when the house was signed to him "for safe keeping". As he was young and stupid at the time he doesn't have any of the documents signed (we've bought a copy of the deeds), he didn't take legal advice and doesn't remember exactly what, if anything, he signed beyond the ownership paperwork. He was always under the impression it was going to be his. Relative is now claiming remaining grandparent wants it signed to her ... grandparent has capacity but is very much reliant on relative especially after death of their spouse and appears to support this ...

We know he can't sign it over due to our UC but we don't know how to get out of this position without it falling into full blown family war! We can't charge rent, remortgage, use it for ourselves or anything remotely useful because it would cause massive ruptures. We don't know if there's anything he could have signed at the time that would dictate how he had to deal with the property? Relative has said there's "solicitors documents" that back up their pov that the house needs to be signed to them....

Do not sign that TR1. By signing the TR1 he would be transferred the property to whoever’s name is on the TR1. Do not sign it. I cannot stress that enough.

The property is your husband’s. Putting aside any arrangements that are reached separately, his mum has no right to force your DH to transfer it over. If that’s what grandmother wants, then that’s a separate conversation to be had, but once he signs the document, he loses ownership.

Tell them to provide these “solicitor’s documents”. The onus is on them to prove it, not DH to disprove it.

Let there be war.

mother is causing the war, not your husband so stand up to it.

get legal advice and do not sign anything. Just refuse and say you need to find your own paperwork first.

locate the grandparents solicitor and ask them about the deeds.

do not sign anything ever.

So one of the grandparents who signed it over is still alive and living in the property?

Presumably when they signed it over a solicitor was involved, so there shuld be paprwork, and the fact that your dh has the deeds means he is the owner? But I really think you need legal advice.

Do NOT sign anything until you've had legal advice

I suspect I know who your grandparents were keeping the house safe from. Once you've given something away it's not yours any more, you are not able to then give it away again to someone else because it's not yours to give.

I'd go with "I'm not signing anything without getting a lawyer involved" on repeat and wait to see if the "solicitor's documents" magically appear or whether that's just a bullying move.

It's going to be awkward, there's no getting round it but the only way to avoid a fallout is to give away a house. Is family peace worth that much to him?

Thank you all! Does anyone know if one of the grandparents put in their will (either before or after) that the relatives will be treated as lifetime tenants is that enforceable now that they effectively don't own the house? I don't think they will have as at the time the house was put in DHs name to "keep it safe" from relatives.... 🤦🏼‍♀️ In terms of legal advice cost- we've never used a solicitor, roughly how much does legal advice for something like this cost?

I wish the bloody thing would burn down with no one in it.

I believe technically if your husband name is the only name on the deeds then he owns it.
Regardless of who owned it in the past and who occupies it now.

Just say to family you don't want any changes but you are happy for them to continue to live in the house (if you are).

This has been given to your husband by his grandfather who owned it. It would have been given for good reason it's not something you do lightly. It's no one else's business but your husbands.

You don't have to have the paperwork, his name is on the deeds.

Just make sure you log with land registry the need to flag extra checks on this property in case something sly happens if you don't sign.

As PP said, they can't put a house they don't not own in their will.

If the house was signed over prior to the grandfather's death then even if there is something in it about a tenancy for life then it fails as he didn't own the house when he died.

There are possibly capital gains tax issues if your DH signs it over.

You can get an hour’s free legal advice from some solicitors - I used one firm that has a few branches in my area and they were very helpful. Do a Google search - free legal advice near me - and make an appointment. In the meantime, your DH should not sign anything. If whoever is trying to get him to sign is being insistent, tell them they need to provide the legal paperwork to support their case.

If he transfers it he will pay CGT on the difference in value between when he was gifted it and the date of the transfer.

the grandparents gave it to him for a reason.

It may well have been agreed that the grandparents have a life time interest in the property and could reside there until they die but this would cease once the last one dies and no one else would have any claim on the property.

It sounds like DH’s mother hasn’t really explained why she thinks she’s entitled to the house. I wouldn’t be trying to pre-empt her. I’d sit tight, absolutely refuse to sign anything and just keep repeating to her that she needs to explain herself. If she thinks she’s entitled to the house, get her to spend her money on legal advice, and you can go and seek your own once she’s actually put a claim to you.

As others have said, your husband is the legal owner so as long as he refuses to sign documents, she can’t do much without going through a lengthy and expensive court process (if she has any sort of claim at all).

This! That's likely to be a terrific whack of CGT liability. Sit tight!

I know you are on UC and people on here are recommending a solicitor who will give you a free consultation but honestly, these are tricky circumstances and it really would be worth finding a good property solicitor to consult.

My advice is to get proper legal advice. Get a solicitor on the case. Then if your DH's mum wants to start something, your DH only has to say to her "I'll just run that by the solicitor." or "I'll need to check that with my solicitor first" and then do just that.
Your DH is as entitled to legal advice as the next person. It seems rather grabby of his mother to be trying to stick her oar in here. That's your pension pot right there. Or the costs of a nursing home or whatever you need it to be for you and your DH. I don't know if you have children but it could be for their future too.

If your DH was to put it to his mother that she would basically be taking X or Y away from your children, would she be likely to back down?

To me it kind of depends on 'why' the grandparents gifted it to him. Was it specifically to protect it against his mother for instance? Is she the relative they didn't want to have it?

Either way, if you want people to truly believe you own this house I think your DH needs to get a bit more involved and less head in the sand. The fact his parent has been paying the bills might have some influence here.

Do you have any kind of house insurance? If so check if free legal advice is included in the policy.
Don’t sign anything!
I think grandmother is being coerced into this by the other relatives.

I think if it's gifted and not sold there is no gain. Therefore no gains tax.

But I agree with everyone. Do not sign this over at all. Your grandad was protecting this house and wanted your husband to have it. This isn't anything to do with his mother.

I've a feeling she's feeling vulnerable as the remaining grandparent is getting older and she doesn't own the house she lives in.

As others have said, you cannot leave things or specify things you do not own in a will. Your grandad's will cannot have put conditions on a house he didn't own at the time of death.

Please get sound legal advice.

Do not transfer ownership!!