Cannot access physical copy of LPA

[namechangetango]

Hi, hope you can help but not sure how much backstory is required apologies

There's a contentious history between me and my Sister.

Years ago, our Mum made us both attorneys for both health & finance matters via LPA. We're Attorneys jointly and severally.

Sister lives with Mum. Has done for 5 years after some legal issues that I've never fully known about. She has cared for Mum almost full time for the past year and as such hasn't been able to work which was understandable.

Now Mum's in a care home and there's been a recent change in her requirements, I suggested gathering her financial records to see what resources she has and how much she can afford.
I believe every penny should go towards the best care she can afford. I'm aware that if we have to sell Mum's house to afford the care, sister will be homeless. I don't want this to happen but mum has to come first. It's her money.

Sister has had access to Mums accounts a long time paying care fees and bills. Ive never had access or known the state of her finances. Sister says she doesn't have time to look into it yet when I've offered, she says "it's not really that big of a task dont worry." Whenever I offer to take something off the apparent never ending task list, she has some contradictory reason for why I can't help. She constantly complains that no one helps but won't let me help with anything. Given that we were in a position where we need to sort out additional care, I'm trying to get her affairs in order fast. Sister doesn't work at all and for a long time hasn't had to care for Mum because she's been in a care home.

For the umpteenth time now, Sister has found a reason why she can't give me the LPA hard copy that I need to go to the bank. She's even physically blocked me from trying to access the room it's in.

I felt really uneasy about this and asked why she's so reluctant. It devolved into a huge argument where I felt physically unsafe around her so I left.

I'm now concerned that she's been using Mum's money to supplement her life. She's told me that she's not on benefits, hasn't worked for years and is living off savings. She claims she cannot work at all so I asked how she was planning to to survive once her savings run out. It's none of my business I know but I asked out of fear that she's using our Mum's money.

I think she's cottoned on about my concerns and will be trying to block me from my plans.

My understanding is that I need the actual hard copy to gain access to banks and financial products. I saw online that you can get certified copies but as mums now not considered "of capacity" I don't think this is an option as she couldn't certify or sign the copy.

After all this ramble I'm wondering if you know

-can I visit banks/advisors on Mum's behalf without the hard copy (as in is there such a thing as a register for LPAs they can verify me against?)

-if I can't, what can I do to get access to the LPA? Would it be a police matter? This feels overkill but whilst I'm panicking I can't make much sense of a plan

TIA x

You can register lpa online and then use that at the bank. You will need the reference number though. www.gov.uk/use-lasting-power-of-attorney

Thank you @handmademitlove

Can your mom's solicitor give you a copy

@Doggymummar I'm going to try this, thank you

Ring the Office of the Public Guardian for advice before you go to the solicitor.
Solicitors are expensive.

@Stratocumulus thank you, I'm concerned I'd be possibly wasting their time if she isn't actually doing anything wrong but I spose it's better than ignoring the warning signs if she is.

Just been through this with MIL. DH too ill and far away to get involved and BIL cagey about expenditure. MIL died and he'd spent all the money. Phone the OPG, they're really helpful.

The Office of the Public Guardian are Civil Servants.
Civil Servants as their title suggests are there to “serve” us.
As a named Attorney they can advise. I found them very helpful. No need to tell them any back story. Just say you need a hard copy. See what they say.

Citizens advice or a solicetor might be a good idea. It sounds like you need to do something concrete about this.

I don't know how this works so hopefully someone with more knowledge can give more advice but what about making an application to the Court of Protection. Maybe just threatening to do so might make your sister more forthcoming?

You can also report your concerns about your sister to the Office of the Public Guardian Info here

Again, maybe just threatening to do so will push your sister to see sense.

Do you have anyone else in the family who can help you?

Can you get access to the house when your sister isn't there, e.g. when she's visiting your Mum? If you don't have a key, you could see if your Mum has a key with her (at the care home), "borrow" that ... I know, it all sounds sneaky but needs must.

Ring the Office of the Public Guardian. I had a similar problem that we couldn’t access the actual POA but not due to anybody being difficult.
If you are one of the attorneys, for the cost of £35 you can purchase certified copies of the POA. It’s £35 for each so the health one and the finance one.
You should have had a letter from the OPG when the original POA was registered just to tell you that it had been registered and you had been named as an attorney. If you have never had this then that could be a problem as it might mean that it was never registered and therefore a POA doesn’t actually exist. Your sister could have been accessing your mums account online as if she were your mum. I certainly did this for my mum right up to her death without telling the bank, I knew all the passwords. This was all done with mums knowledge by the way!

You will need to prove who you are so if you have moved house since the POA was drawn up, you need to say you have moved. They will also expect you to know your mums details eg DOB address and I think NI number. They were incredibly helpful when I rang them but it is a loooong phone wait, about 40 mins, so don’t try calling within an hour of them closing, which I think is 4pm.

Make the payment over the phone and an official copy appears. It’s got a special embossing on every page so it can’t be photocopied and used.
I’ll be honest, I’d put money on your sister not having registered it. In which case you need to contact the councils safeguarding team as you have a suspicion she’s being financially abused.

If she has and you go to the bank with the copy you should be able to find out what she’s been up to. Attorneys are required to keep detailed records of how money has been spent.
Best of luck.

You're all so helpful thanks so much