Lasting power of attorney issues. Attorney disagreeing with preferences.

[fortheloveofgodmary]

What happens if an attorney to be disagrees with the donor's preferences. The attorneys was originally completely against seeing a solicitor because of the cost.. The LPAs were completed and sent off but since then the donor has changed their mind on several things. Now another sibling has been added(me) and one of them is saying a solicitor needs to be consulted because of the donor's preferences and possibly for the solicitor to be the attorney. They have not given a reason for this when asked and just say a solicitor needs to be seen. They are saying only them and the donor should see the solicitor and not the other two attorneys. It's all about the preferences but they won't explain what the issue is and have become quite unpleasant about it all. They are saying this is taking too much of their time and I'm concerned how they would manage to be an attorney if they are struggling to find time to discuss this between the four of us.
A solicitor has been approached and gave some advice but they only offer a complete advice, prep, registering the LPA service, they don't do just advice. I don't know if that's a common thing. The solicitor said straight off that this could be done without using a solicitor. The solicitor gave advice on the instructions and preferences section and clarified a few things and that was all that was needed so we thought. Now the other attorney is not happy and I'm not sure where we go from here. It's very clear now that this would not be a team thing. Any advice would be much appreciated.

And maybe just don’t tell the other potential attorneys until the LPA is registered

What would a solicitor be likely to advise? Do they offer advice only meetings?

I’m not sure what you mean by advice only meetings?

Just for advice about completing the forms and what to put in them rather than a complete package of advice, drafting and registering.

As an attorney you have to represent the person who appointed you.

This means you make decisions they would have agreed with when capacious. This sometimes means making decisions that you yourself don't agree with.

I was my Dad's and advocated for him to have limited escalations of care as that is what he very clearly wanted. He died peacefully etc.

I'm now acting for my aunt and she is the exact opposite. She wants EVERYTHING done. I'm a doctor, who has previously done a lot of adult ICU, so I find myself explaining to her treating team that she would want to try treatments with a minimal chance of success even though i agree with them.

Luckily the donor and I are on the same page regarding health (I'm also a healthcare professional) so that aspect isn't of concern. I'm sorry for the loss of your dad

Have you looked at the forms? They aren't complicated and the package includes a guide to completing the forms.

Yes, they are printed off along with the 60 page guide that the donor and I have read. The other two potential attorneys didn't want to read it. It's all very straightforward but number 1 is insisting the donor and they see a solicitor for advice. The one solicitor the donor and i approached only does a complete package where they do the forms for you.

@prh47bridge are you essentially saying it's being over-complicated as they are simple to complete and there's no need to consult a solicitor for advice? There's no stocks, shares, nothing except the house, a few hundred in the bank and state pension as far as finances go. There's no great inheritance to be squandered or anything like that.

It's all very straightforward but number 1 is insisting the donor and they see a solicitor for advice.

But why are you even listening to 1 - they can't insist on anything. If you and the donor are happy to complete the forms just do it! It's nothing to do with 1 or 2.

On the other hand, it may pay to see a solicitor now. Otherwise, I predict that - once the donor loses capacity - potential attorneys 1 and 2 will make life hell for the OP. They will contest the donor's capacity at the time she made the LPA.

Using a solicitor to help draw up the LPA now provides independent evidence for the future that the donor had capacity at the time the LPA was signed.

@fortheloveofgodmary the estate and what the will states doesn’t make any difference to who has POA.

They are 2 separate issues, though it sounds as if both need sorting.

I wouldnt appoint a solicitor as an attorney. In your situation, I would just appoint you!
I’d sit down with your Mum, complete the forms online, print them off and get them witnessed by a neighbour who knows her well. That’s what we did with my MIL.
I’d also get her will sorted with yourself as executor, and have her write an expression of wishes with regards to her funeral - as executor, I’d hope you’d follow that to the letter!

Attorney 1's views are irrelevant, especially if the donor isn't going to appoint them. If the donor makes you the only attorney, which is what I would do in their shoes, the other attorneys can be ignored.

As part of completing the forms, the donor must get a suitably qualified professional to act as certificate provider, which means they confirm the donor has capacity and that they aren't being put under pressure to make the LPA. That can be a doctor, lawyer, someone else with appropriate professional skills or someone the donor has known well for at least two years. That is the independent evidence needed.

You REALLY need to see a solicitor. We are in the process of doing this and trying to save money is all very well until something goes wrong, when it is too late. You can remove attorneys from a POA but you can't add them on. The person for whom the POA is for cannot add or remove things once it is done.

It is expensive but if it all goes wrong and you find it's not legal it will be a complete nightmare.

As the saying goes - If you think it's expensive hiring a lawyer, try not hiring one...

You don't need to appoint a solicitor with POA, but you absolutely should see a solicitor before drawing up the LPA and any revisions to the Will, given the potential for them being contested.

This.
Let the others have their opinions - everyone can have an opinion - but the donor / will writer is best off picking attorney (s) / executor (s) who they trust to do as asked without kicking off or quibbling.
Stonewall any grumbling with stuff like, "I do understand you feel differently, but X has decided this is what works best for them" or some such.

The problem is there are very few people who could be attorney. 1 is not able to do it. They have neither the time nor the patience to deal with it now let alone if they have to act on it. 2 is silent on the matter since receiving the proposed update. Literally not said a word to the donor despite speaking to them and seeing them since. There's a 4th person who wants nothing to do with it at all so that leaves me or a solicitor.

The donor has a trusted friend of 60 years as witness. I've suggested they are replacement and the spouse act as witness. Known for over 20 years.

The donor is worried about upsetting anybody and really wants to know what 1's objections are. And 2's but neither will say.

The office of the public guardian would return the forms if they are a problem.

The donor is at the point of saying fuck it and not doing LPAs at all.

So the potential attorneys are you and a long term friend of your parent?

I actually think this is more difficult than just having you. The friend may lose capacity if they are of your parent’s age.

It is currently taking around 20 weeks to register LPAs . So the issue with forms being redone is that capacity might decline in the interim.

I would never just have one person as an attorney. You really need another person to step in if you're ill, etc.

Honestly, a lot of these problems are people thinking they know how lives will go and worrying how others will react in certain situations. So they try to define what will happen in advance. But when things start to happen to our parents, these plans or ideals go out of the window. More often than not you're playing catch up. And how you thought a gp or doctor would decide when it's time she'd go into a home, will seem laughable when the time comes and reality hits. Trust me, there'll be no one round then to support you over that. It will just be the family trying to make the best decisions you can.

If your sibling isn't involved in her day to day care and you trust them with money, etc, do a single and joint decision. That means you can make decisions about her without constant reference to the others,who are less available.

There seems to be a lot of confusion here about what goes 'in' the LPA and what decisions the attorney can make for someone. However, I would definitely get it with you as attorney, we've been POA for all our parents and once they start needing help with banking, doctors, social services whatever it does help to have it lurking in the background. If you are going to be the person doing all the day to day work then it makes sense for you to have it because that's where it is useful. The other potential attorneys sound a nightmare and best avoided.

There are other important ways your DM can make sure her wishes are followed

• her will (obviously) which can have details of what she wants for her funeral too (LPA doesn't get to decide about funerals by the way, if nothing is written down/clearly expressed then it's the executor's decision. Personally I'd push to be the sole executor too, I suspect you're going to end up doing all the work. If her funeral is important to her then a funeral prepayment plan makes sense.)
• Advance Decision - this relates to medical treatment and is about what you wouldn't want to happen to you. It's legally binding. Google is your friend here.
• by expressing them to her LPA while she still has capacity. Her LPA must make all decisions for her in her best interests, and part of deciding best interests is any views the person held or expressed in the past

If not 1 and 2 then there's only me.
Looking through documents today I have authority currently to speak to the bank which I'd forgotten about. I already speak with the GP, consultants, dentist, physio and pharmacy but know that I really need LPA to do that should the donor lose capacity.

What is the confusion with what goes in the LPA and what the attorney does for the donor? i think I've missed something there. All the donor has said is their preferences for certain things like 1 and 2 to deal with any big things like selling the house if it needs to be sold to pay for a nursing home and tor me to do the day to day finances as i do now. This seems to be a sticking point.