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Original poster

Pls help ! Benefit fraud ?

36 replies

Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 14:28

Pls help I do not know if I am/have done something wrong. I am currently claiming Uc and working full time each month

I’m currently renting from my mum who has a commercial property ( tenancy agreement in place etc).this is because the kids school are right opposite the house so works so well for me as a single parent. This was all declared to UC since the start of my claim in 2018.

Because of the relationship btw my mother and i and how close we are , she lends me money which I have to return and sametimes vice versa

Because of this I casually take off any loan from her rent or if she wants to help me when I’m im struggling I pay her some but make sure I pay the rest. Eg rent is 1k but she has borrowed 200 from me , I end up paying her 800 that month or she borrows me 300 I end up paying her 700 and balance her the rest later. This has happened like this severely over the years but of course there are whole payments of £1000 some months

It’s only just occurred to me as I read an article on renting from a family member , would this be considered benefit fraud because I’m not paying her the whole amounts some of the months over the years even though there is evidence of other amounts between us that may have been a loan?

This was done ignorantly and innocently because it’s family . There’s definitely no fraud here as she is always being paid . It’s just that it’s scattered all over the place in small payments Sometimes

OP posts:
Original poster
Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 18:35

Bump anyone 😔

OP posts:
Nimbostratus100 · 04/05/2023 18:38

why are you worried about fruad? Has it been suggested? Or are you going to be investigated? Renting from relatives and claiming benefits to cover it is a dodgy area, but if you have declared it upfront, and can show that you have made those other smaller payments to her too, then you should be ok, just call them "rent paid in advance" etc

CornishTiger · 04/05/2023 18:43

You do need to ensure your rent is paid as rent. Just start doing it all properly now.

AliceMcK · 04/05/2023 18:44

I’m not sure of the legalities of it all but I’d say it looks a bit strange on paper. Surely it’s better to pay the set rent then if your mum owes you money or her you then you exchange that separately not involving you tenancy agreement so there is no room for confusion.

TeaKitten · 04/05/2023 18:47

It would look very odd on paper and this is why UC are funny about people renting from family. I would make sure the rent payments go straight to her so you have the relevant paper trails if UC ever ask for bank statements, which they can do. I don’t no if they would consider it fraud but if they doubt your tenancy they will stop paying you the rent element.

Original poster
Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 18:47

Nimbostratus100 · 04/05/2023 18:38

why are you worried about fruad? Has it been suggested? Or are you going to be investigated? Renting from relatives and claiming benefits to cover it is a dodgy area, but if you have declared it upfront, and can show that you have made those other smaller payments to her too, then you should be ok, just call them "rent paid in advance" etc

Thank you for your reply

Not at all being investigated. And all I’m saying is the truth. sometimes You just can’t say where you can go wrong with DWP . I just have this nasty anxiety about all these rules and regulations especially around benefits and declaring things here and there .

it only just clicked when I read an article yesterday about benefit fraud with family members, of which the scenario is totally different to mine .

But then Mine is not also straightforward so wanted to clarify if I have done anything wrong

OP posts:
Babyroobs · 04/05/2023 18:48

If it looks like you are paying below market rent then it could be a problem but if tenancy agreement says a certain amount I'm not sure how they would know you weren't paying that some months. they only look at the tenancy agreement. I'm amazed they allow renting from a parent, just seems so wrong to me but clearly been agreed as a a legitimate tenancy.

Original poster
Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 18:52

AliceMcK · 04/05/2023 18:44

I’m not sure of the legalities of it all but I’d say it looks a bit strange on paper. Surely it’s better to pay the set rent then if your mum owes you money or her you then you exchange that separately not involving you tenancy agreement so there is no room for confusion.

thank you

Yes it does look strange thinking about it now admit. That’s why I got a bit panicky because I wasn’t sure there were any legal rules around this.

it’s not like the rent is 1k for example and i have paid her 800 consistently, then that would definitely look off. But it’s been different amounts here and there so hopefully that would just there have just been some advance payments between us

OP posts:
Original poster
Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 18:57

Babyroobs · 04/05/2023 18:48

If it looks like you are paying below market rent then it could be a problem but if tenancy agreement says a certain amount I'm not sure how they would know you weren't paying that some months. they only look at the tenancy agreement. I'm amazed they allow renting from a parent, just seems so wrong to me but clearly been agreed as a a legitimate tenancy.

It’s actually below the market rate now 😔because that’s what’s she has been collecting from me since 2018. It was when things were going a bit tough for me and most importantly because of the kids school opposite the house that’s why we have been here and to be honest, I think she just left it at that because of me and the kids.

we plan to move out next year when my eldest finishes year 6

but she had been renting it out way before I came in so would be unfair for her to let me stay for free when she wouldn’t be able to afford it

OP posts:
Original poster
Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 18:59

AliceMcK · 04/05/2023 18:44

I’m not sure of the legalities of it all but I’d say it looks a bit strange on paper. Surely it’s better to pay the set rent then if your mum owes you money or her you then you exchange that separately not involving you tenancy agreement so there is no room for confusion.

Yea this is what i intend to do from now on. It was just easier taking it out before I send the rent to her so it was an oversight looking at it from UC’s view

OP posts:
Cleo29 · 04/05/2023 19:02

Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 14:28

Pls help I do not know if I am/have done something wrong. I am currently claiming Uc and working full time each month

I’m currently renting from my mum who has a commercial property ( tenancy agreement in place etc).this is because the kids school are right opposite the house so works so well for me as a single parent. This was all declared to UC since the start of my claim in 2018.

Because of the relationship btw my mother and i and how close we are , she lends me money which I have to return and sametimes vice versa

Because of this I casually take off any loan from her rent or if she wants to help me when I’m im struggling I pay her some but make sure I pay the rest. Eg rent is 1k but she has borrowed 200 from me , I end up paying her 800 that month or she borrows me 300 I end up paying her 700 and balance her the rest later. This has happened like this severely over the years but of course there are whole payments of £1000 some months

It’s only just occurred to me as I read an article on renting from a family member , would this be considered benefit fraud because I’m not paying her the whole amounts some of the months over the years even though there is evidence of other amounts between us that may have been a loan?

This was done ignorantly and innocently because it’s family . There’s definitely no fraud here as she is always being paid . It’s just that it’s scattered all over the place in small payments Sometimes

There needs to be a proper paper trail so you need to pay the full rent. Also it makes it an issue for your mum in terms of her tax returns and evidence.

craftybeee · 04/05/2023 19:37

How much do UC cover of your rent? If you don't mind me asking ?

misssunshine4040 · 04/05/2023 19:40

Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 14:28

Pls help I do not know if I am/have done something wrong. I am currently claiming Uc and working full time each month

I’m currently renting from my mum who has a commercial property ( tenancy agreement in place etc).this is because the kids school are right opposite the house so works so well for me as a single parent. This was all declared to UC since the start of my claim in 2018.

Because of the relationship btw my mother and i and how close we are , she lends me money which I have to return and sametimes vice versa

Because of this I casually take off any loan from her rent or if she wants to help me when I’m im struggling I pay her some but make sure I pay the rest. Eg rent is 1k but she has borrowed 200 from me , I end up paying her 800 that month or she borrows me 300 I end up paying her 700 and balance her the rest later. This has happened like this severely over the years but of course there are whole payments of £1000 some months

It’s only just occurred to me as I read an article on renting from a family member , would this be considered benefit fraud because I’m not paying her the whole amounts some of the months over the years even though there is evidence of other amounts between us that may have been a loan?

This was done ignorantly and innocently because it’s family . There’s definitely no fraud here as she is always being paid . It’s just that it’s scattered all over the place in small payments Sometimes

It's not benefit fraud don't worry. Some people don't use the housing element of UC to their rent fully and end up in arrears.
The tenancy is legitimate and the amount you receive is the amount you are entitled to.
If you chose not to spend it on the rent that's a separate issue but it's not fraudulent

misssunshine4040 · 04/05/2023 19:43

Pay their rent I mean sorry.
And no there doesn't have to be a paper trial of anything?!
It also doesn't have to market rent. A landlord can charge what ever they like and uc will pay the local housing allowance rate for size and area. If it's below that it's fine.
Renting from family is not "dodgy" if it's all above board etc as it is here

throwaway201809 · 04/05/2023 19:46

Have you declared that you’re renting from family? Underpaying your rent because your mum owes you money could be an issue as it could look like your rent is lower than you’ve told UC. They could think you’re claiming more than you’re entitled to.

If I were you, I’d separate out the rent and the loaning back and forth to avoid issues

TeaKitten · 04/05/2023 19:50

misssunshine4040 · 04/05/2023 19:43

Pay their rent I mean sorry.
And no there doesn't have to be a paper trial of anything?!
It also doesn't have to market rent. A landlord can charge what ever they like and uc will pay the local housing allowance rate for size and area. If it's below that it's fine.
Renting from family is not "dodgy" if it's all above board etc as it is here

It looks as though it’s not above board though. UC could think that OP and her mum have drawn up a tenancy agreement to get £1000 a month out of UC for ‘rent’ when actually that’s not a formal business agreement like it should be, and it’s more of a con to get a bit extra. UC have stopped peoples rental element for
less.

Original poster
Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 20:01

craftybeee · 04/05/2023 19:37

How much do UC cover of your rent? If you don't mind me asking ?

Tbh don’t know how they work it out . I get paid about 2500 a month and they top it up with about 600 a month ( I have two kids) so I don’t know how they work out rent portion of it. Think my pay is calculated in it as well. Rent is circa £1000

OP posts:
Original poster
Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 20:03

TeaKitten · 04/05/2023 19:50

It looks as though it’s not above board though. UC could think that OP and her mum have drawn up a tenancy agreement to get £1000 a month out of UC for ‘rent’ when actually that’s not a formal business agreement like it should be, and it’s more of a con to get a bit extra. UC have stopped peoples rental element for
less.

Show quote history

Even with proof that I pay her the “&1000” a month most months ?

OP posts:
Weedoormatnomore · 04/05/2023 20:06

I thought you couldn't claim if renting of family members 🤔

Tarantullah · 04/05/2023 20:06

Get her to draw up a tenancy agreement (plenty of templates online) and then make sure you pay the amount each money outlined on it to her in rent- if other monies are owed do it separately. It's one of those things that's unlikely to be investigated but of it is just a few simple steps and it'll cover your back. Your mum has obligations as a landlord also and it helps to have things above board.

Original poster
Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 20:06

throwaway201809 · 04/05/2023 19:46

Have you declared that you’re renting from family? Underpaying your rent because your mum owes you money could be an issue as it could look like your rent is lower than you’ve told UC. They could think you’re claiming more than you’re entitled to.

If I were you, I’d separate out the rent and the loaning back and forth to avoid issues

Yes there is a proper tenancy in place and I pay her rent because she can’t even afford to let me stay for free and it has always been a rental property

the council tax and bills are in my name

OP posts:
Tarantullah · 04/05/2023 20:07

Weedoormatnomore · 04/05/2023 20:06

I thought you couldn't claim if renting of family members 🤔

You can't if you rent off of them and also live with them, if you don't live with them as is the case here then you can (but not always).

TeaKitten · 04/05/2023 20:08

Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 20:03

Even with proof that I pay her the “&1000” a month most months ?

Show quote history

You sort of said the opposite to it being ‘most months’ in your OP, you said ‘some months’

This has happened like this severely over the years but of course there are whole payments of £1000 some months

So I would imagine it looks dodgy if anyone were to look.

Original poster
Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 20:09

Weedoormatnomore · 04/05/2023 20:06

I thought you couldn't claim if renting of family members 🤔

You can but there are extra checks in place to ensure it is a rental property. I was actually renting from her before I was eligible to get UC so I had to show them statements that I was paying her rent.

now that I remember I think I paid her less in some months because of this same issue ( we lending ourselves 😩) and I had to show them how it balanced out . And I totally forgot , now I have done it over 5 years again 🙄

OP posts:
Weedoormatnomore · 04/05/2023 20:12

Stressedoutttt · 04/05/2023 20:09

You can but there are extra checks in place to ensure it is a rental property. I was actually renting from her before I was eligible to get UC so I had to show them statements that I was paying her rent.

now that I remember I think I paid her less in some months because of this same issue ( we lending ourselves 😩) and I had to show them how it balanced out . And I totally forgot , now I have done it over 5 years again 🙄

Show quote history

Thanks for info.