Taking children abroad to visit family

[Homeforkids]

Hi everyone!
I am looking at taking my 2 children (10 and 12) abroad to see my side of the family on the other side of the world - so a long trip. They haven't seen them for about 5 years. Kids are excited to go and will see grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins etc. Grandparents are now too old to travel to the UK. I would like the trip to be about 4 weeks due to how far it is and the expense! I am the father and the children live with their mother. We are divorced. There are no court orders in place for contact/visits - we just usually agree between us when the children visit me.

So I have a couple of issues I am hoping people can help me with.

• Some of the time would be in school time - I would expect to have to take the kids out of school for 8 days either side of the holidays. This exceeds the time of 5 days allowed before a fine is issued. I have just started making queries with the school. I know they may authorise leave for exceptional circumstances. I know this isn't that (funeral, wedding etc.) but it has been years since they have seen this side of the family and it would probably be several years before they see them again. I thought now would be a good time before the children get into the later years of secondary school and being absent has more of an impact. Would it even be a possibility of the school approving for this type of trip?
• Although we usually mutually agree visits, I have concerns that my ex may say it's ok for them to go but then change her mind at the last minute and not allow them to go. I have had issues with her in the past. Due to the type and expense of the trip I would not want the worry of that potentially happening. It is worth applying for a court order (someone told me it's called 'specific issue') to give the certainty that she can't prevent me from taking them? If I was to do something like that, would she be informed? I only want it for a safety net and don't want to use (or her to know) unless it was needed. What is the process and cost?
• If I get approval from the court, would that strengthen the case for school approval?

Any comments welcome. Thanks

Just my penny's worth, based on court experience of many, many such applications for leave to remove for travel.

If the mother agrees, get it in writing, agree the dates, times of flights, outgoing and return, where the kids will stay, and the cost of the tickets, the date the passports will be handed over so you can book and the final date at which the mother can object, or be subject to refunding you the cost of tickets/accommodation etc. Use a mediator if necessary.

Once you have the signed agreement, and the tickets are booked, if the mother changes her mind, you are set to apply to court for an SIO on an urgent basis and claim any costs you lose due to her changing her mind.

You will be very likely to get the SIO as it is a big family reunion - the kids are old enough to travel for four weeks with their father, if they want to go. At 10 and 12 they should have a good grasp of how long 4 weeks actually is.

Parenting separately is about compromise and what is in the kids' best interests, not one upmanship. You may be overthinking this as you imply you have a great co-parenting relationship, so there really shouldn't be any reason the mother would agree and then change her mind. Talk to her, not a bunch of strangers online.

Don't assume the schools won't agree. If your kids attendance is excellent, then they are more likely to agree, get their agreement in writing as soon as you have the mother's agreement, and before you book tickets. Travelling does, after all, broaden the mind, and most parents having home schooled their children during the pandemic can cope with a couple of weeks of home schooling so the kids don't fall behind.

It will be a one off - so in my experience both the school and the courts will be sympathetic to that.

The school are highly unlikely to approve. You need to go in the summer holidays especially at those ages it's loads of school to miss.

Getting ex to provide a permission letter (you'll probably get asked for one at some point in the journey anyway) and a confirmation of permission through solicitors wound protect against changing mind

I think you probably got those answers because you want to secretly have something in place to force the mum. Of course you can't have a secret court order:- it's part of the system that both sides can argue their case.

I think it's unlikely if she agrees to the holiday she'd then refuse last minute, surely that would upset everyone?

Negotiate - ask for the month and be prepared to accept 3 weeks or a fortnight. Pay all fines if any.

But it's a lot to ask at Christmas, so being proactive about keeping her able to speak to them, facetiming and stuff, would probably help.

I'd probably let them go as an amazing experience for them, but it would be a huge thing. If you're sensitive to her emotions around it, it'll go better.

Yes. And the fact that he hasn't broached it with their mum but has already talked to the kids about it which is manipulative in the extreme.

My opinion would be the same whatever your sex. I totally understand your reasons for wanting to do this but I think you've gone about it in a really manipulative and underhand way. It is not amicable coparenting.

@Homeforkids, and @JustAnotherLawyer2, it was a family trip arranged by the paternal grandparents for all the UK based family, to visit the abroad family.

The grandparents booked the trip using the southern England school holiday calendar as a guide. My client has children in school in the Midlands, school term finished two days later.

RP (resident parent), mum, agreed to the holiday at the eleventh hour (as they were entering the court room). Judge said no to the SIO. Mum decided in the court room, to agree with judge. My client and their children did not travel.

@Homeforkids - sorry you're getting such a rough time. They are old enough that being away from one parent for 4 weeks is hardly child abuse. I do the same trip every two years the other way- Australia to UK. I have done so for years, and have fortunately had mostly agreeable from her father, with some arsey bits. I've pulled her out of school for the trip so,e times to coincide with UK school holidays. I'd ask early, and then if there is an issue you can try to deal with it. Do the kids have passports? There is a huge pearl clutching I'd NEVER allow that number of people on MN- if her dad asked to take her somewhere I'd be happy to send them off. Miss her, absolutely but also realise that she'd have a ball. Good luck.

The school will not authorise it, they never do! However, if I was your children's mother then I would allow them to go. They're not tiny babies and it's a fantastic opportunity for them. I hope your kids get to experience it!

Thanks for the supporting messages. It would be nice to have the school support it. Some finer details I didn’t think necessary to post before might be worth mentioning. The family gathering is important given recent events in the family, including the sudden tragic death of a family member and grandparents having surgery and cancer battles being the main ones. With large families there always seems to be something happening and we’ve certainly had our fair share. there is illness in the family but while there is no immediate risk currently, the future can’t be predicted. So I am certainly looking for enough quality time that is very much overdue. From looking at the legal side it is not clear. The government have just put the law in place without specific guidance. So the discretion lies with the school. I can only put my case forward and see what they say.

I would not agree. I think it is just too long. Especially at Christmas.