Can anyone advise re care home

[Goawaypeppa]

My relative is in a care home.

Their care plan says they need an alarm to alert staff when they move from the bed area of their room as they are a fall risk due to dementia and mobility issues. This alarm was put in place when they moved to the home.

They fell yesterday. Injuries to one part of their body.

The alarm wasn’t there. I asked why it wasn’t there when I attended and the paramedics asked if they had any sort of alarm and I noticed that it wasn’t in place (I specifically went to check, it was gone). The care staff didn’t know why it wasn’t there.

No one can tell me why or when it had been taken away.

I had to tell them to put one back today.

I checked and it was in her care plan that she should have one in her room.

I have no idea when this alarm was moved out. Nor do they. They say it’s not been documented. she walked out into the corridor and fell. No one saw the fall. Just saw her dragging herself along the floor bleeding.

They have failed in their duty of care. I have made a verbal complaint today to the deputy manager and also put it in writing.

But surely this is negligence?

I haven’t said a word about a safeguarding enquiry.

The OP does not ask about reporting safeguarding concerns. It asks about negligence. I answered that question.

Subsequently, PPs suggested reporting a safeguarding concern, which I haven’t commented on, one way or another.

Everything I have said in answer to the OP’s question on negligence is correct. You are shrieking at me that I’m dangerous and incompetent for not answering a totally different question from the one the OP actually asked.

Safeguarding and meeting the thresholds for a civil case for negligence are totally different. Maybe it’s you who should be brushing up on your professional expertise?

It wouldn’t be triggered by falling out of bed. She isn’t a risk for that. She’s has severe arthritis in both knees which makes her unstable even with a walking frame.

The beam crosses the room where she would walk to get to the en suite or to leave the room.

@Goawaypeppa

I would hope the carehome registered manager would report it as a safeguarding concern

However you should report it as a safeguarding concern to your local authority where the card home is based on their adult safeguarding line

It doesn't matter is it is reported twice. (Infact we prefer it is reported twice!!, as that means we have an open and transparent provider team)

Okay, thank you!

Any safeguarding enquiry would have no bearing on a civil case for negligence.

Don’t you understand the difference between a criminal prosecution for safeguarding failures, which might be an outcome of a safeguarding enquiry, and a civil case for negligence?

It's Sunday now
Please wait until it's weekday and normal working hours (9-5pm or 8.30-5pm) as you want the MASH team to screen this , not the "emergency " out of Hours team over the weekend or in the evenings - that do the immediate stuff and won't have access to everything MASH team will.

Before you think about "suing" please let the teams do their investigation.
Sometimes things aren't quite what they initially seemed , (sometimes they are) and you have to think about what is the best outcome for your relative.

Unless a member of staff was very nearby to your relatives room when the alarm would've gone off (had it been there) then that alarm would not of prevented your relatives fall. Even if they had got to her as she was about to fall, they're not allowed to catch her.
There isn't spare staff who just hang around in a care home ready to run as soon as an alarm goes!
Having said that, the alarm should've been there if it's in her care plan and has possibly been (wrongfully) removed because she's setting it off hundreds of times a day. It wouldn't of prevented the fall though.

Oh I’m not doing anything now.

Of course I will wait until the morning.

Would someone not need to be in the room to be that quick?

It still does not prevent falls though. Does she have an alarm mat?

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

OP asked for legal advice

You're clearly not in this field or you would insist she reported it to the LA for it to be considered as a potential (& actual) statutory safeguarding enquiry first

Any solicitor ignoring that there is a DUTY to inform the local authority of an adult (or child) ) safeguarding that ought be investigated does not understand the relevant legislation. Safeguarding is everyone's business and that includes solicitors.

Great @Goawaypeppa
You've a job to do tomorrow
to report this safeguarding concern

I hope your relative is ok

For those making the point about how this piece of equipment 'wouldn't have stopped the fall'

No it might not have but if it had been there, like it should have been then the care home had fulfilled what was expected of them to reduce the risk of falls as much as possible. That's what is agreed in the care plan to reduce the risk of falls.

The fall might have been prevented if an arm had triggered alerting staff that the person was on the move and a member of staff had attended.

We get several falls a day reported into our safeguarding team. The vast majority of them don't require progression to s.42 enquiry because the care home can demonstrate that all the necessary equipment was in place and all risk assessments had been adhered to. Despite all this in place the person still fell.

If we get one in where a vital piece of equipment is missing that may have prevented a fall then that triggers the safeguarding threshold for neglect and an s.42 enquiry is required.

If the equipment had been removed because the DoLs had expired (which I highly doubt) then the care home should have been kicking up a stink about getting an authorisation back in place and the equipment reinstated.

The equipment can't just be 'missing' someone needs to provide an explanation.

Before you think about "suing" please let the teams do their investigation.

Well, that and the fact that you can’t meet the tests for negligence as there’s no causal link between the breach (if any) and the injury. Minor detail.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow
Please stop 🛑
I know you want to justify but you've given poor legal advice and not considered the clear statutory duty to report

Ofc the rest of it can follow if there is a civil case regardless of outcome (but it may affect civil case evidence) but that does not negate statutory adult or child safeguarding legislation

I do wonder what your role is if you don't get the basics of safeguarding . As I said there is ZERO chance you are in this field or you'd be all over insisting it was reported to LA.

was working at a place. An older person fell. Snapped a limb clean off when they fell. Bled out before the call for help was made. Buried on their care plan it said all transfers to be x4 staff x1 staff member was moving this person when the fall happened. No one knew they were a x4 till afterwards. Management had told staff they were a 1x1.
nothing ever happened. No one was charged or held accountable.

nursing homes are shoddily run. If people knew what really happened behind closed doors, they would all be shut down

Well, that and the fact that you can’t meet the tests for negligence as there’s no causal link between the breach (if any) and the injury. Minor detail.

I keep telling you and it's ridiculous I have to, if you actually have any legal training, you CANNOT predict the outcome of the s42 enquiry in the basis of a couple lines in a MN post

It may well turn out there is
It may well turn out there isn't

Sweetie, I’m answering a question on the legal board about whether a situation constitutes negligence.

You have spent 7 or 8 posts shrieking at me that I’m wrong, when I’m not. Now you’re trying to criticise me for answering the question that the OP posed.

It took multiple explanations to make you understand the difference between safeguarding and negligence, and between a potential criminal prosecution versus a civil suit. And now that this distinction has apparently finally sunk in, you lack the intellectual maturity to admit that you were criticising me for something I hadn’t actually said, so your only recourse is another spurious attack.

Keep up with the CAPITALS though. They make you seem so CLEVER and PROFESSIONAL.

I spoke too soon.

Let’s try this again. A civil suit for negligence is not the same as a safeguarding enquiry and potential criminal prosecution for safeguarding breaches.

Civil “suit”? Do you mean Civil Litigation? We are presumably talking about UK law and court procedures.

My issue with this as well is that none of so far (inc two deputy managers) have actually realised the issue here.

They would have just put one back quietly and left it.

Why is it down to me to tell them why this is a problem and a safeguarding issue that should be reported? I find it all very frustrating.

Other family members would probably just have left it. But it’s a massive mistake on their part.