Can anyone advise re care home

[Goawaypeppa]

My relative is in a care home.

Their care plan says they need an alarm to alert staff when they move from the bed area of their room as they are a fall risk due to dementia and mobility issues. This alarm was put in place when they moved to the home.

They fell yesterday. Injuries to one part of their body.

The alarm wasn’t there. I asked why it wasn’t there when I attended and the paramedics asked if they had any sort of alarm and I noticed that it wasn’t in place (I specifically went to check, it was gone). The care staff didn’t know why it wasn’t there.

No one can tell me why or when it had been taken away.

I had to tell them to put one back today.

I checked and it was in her care plan that she should have one in her room.

I have no idea when this alarm was moved out. Nor do they. They say it’s not been documented. she walked out into the corridor and fell. No one saw the fall. Just saw her dragging herself along the floor bleeding.

They have failed in their duty of care. I have made a verbal complaint today to the deputy manager and also put it in writing.

But surely this is negligence?

@SafeguardingSocialWorker
Is spot on

Sigh. I knew I’d get a response like this.

Your OP asked if this was negligence. I have answered that question.

Do I think that the care home’s management was good? No. But isn’t what you asked.

If you don’t like my answer, you need to take it up with your MP and ask them to get the law changed. I don’t make the rules about what constitutes negligence. I was just answering your question.

You asked for legal advice
Can't do that as no one can give individual legal advice but we can give generic information - quoting relevant part of legislation

Part I) s.42 The Care Act 2014

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/23/section/42/enacted

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow
Your OP asked if this was negligence. I have answered that question.

You weren't actually giving good advice

It's not for anyone to predict outcome of the s42 statutory safeguarding enquiry, that's for the investigating worker and Co ordinator to decide based on enquiries made/ relevant information gathered

But it will very likely, on basis of info supplied, which we have no reason to disbelieve, meet adult safeguarding stat s42 enquiry criteria. The outcome of that SGC enquiry isn't something that can be answered here.

There no need to get snippy and respond with “sigh” . I’m just asking questions.

They have been failed on some level. That’s all I know.

It’s not my mother or a close relative. But it’s someone who entrusted me with POA and to advocate for them and I am trying to do my best by them, hence asking questions. It’s a Sunday, I can’t ask anyone else so I thought I would reach out here.

It still would not be clinical negligence because the breach of the duty of care (if any) has not led to any injury.

They might well have been a safeguarding failure but that isn’t the same as negligence.

@Goawaypeppa
Ignore that poster

She doesn't fully understand the relevant Adult safeguarding legislation

As i said, find out the relevant local authority (the county council) - on internet search- look up adult social care, it will have a safeguarding line. Report it - better to ring it in
During normal weekday working hours as the local MASH team will screen it then

They will assess it against the statutory safeguarding criteria . They are best placed to do that , not random people on MN "second guessing".

Was the lady in question’s DOLS up to date? If that expires you can’t use falls alarms. I wonder if it was removed as a DOLS was updated and not replaced. Still not great

Yes. DOLS was put in place June last year. So up to date.

@MustBeMissingSomething

You need to stop

You are giving awful information which is neither true nor competent legal
advice

This is literally my job
I'm pretty damn good at my job and what you've said is predicting an outcome which is an unlawful way of considering a s42 adult statutory safeguarding enquiry

OP can and should report this to her LA adult safeguarding line on a weekday normal working hours and let the professionals screen it

@Goawaypeppa Was it a 12 month authorisation? They aren’t always

DOLS is irrelevant in whether it meets atatutory safeguarding enquiry criteria. It's relevant in the enquiry when gathering relevant facts

Thank you.

The actual care home manager is calling me in the morning. It was the duty manager there today who i went though everything with. She was shocked. All the colour drained from her face, she knows how serious something like this is.

I then wrote a formal complaint to be passed to the manager in the morning. She assured me I would be called tomorrow.

It’s you who do not seem to understand the difference between a safeguarding failure- which may certainly have occurred here, and the legal test for suing for negligence. The OP was asking if she can sue for negligence. To do that, she would need to meet 3 tests:

1. Is there a duty of care - yes

2. Has there been a breach of that duty? Possibly (depending on what any investigation about the missing alarm establishes)

3. is there a greater than 50% chance that the breach caused the injury.

Test 3 cannot be met here because the absence of the alarm did not lead to the injury.

Yes, 12 months.

Reminder this is LEGAL advice board

Even if this was elderly parents board, it is what it is. The safeguarding concern either meets s42 statutory safeguarding enquiry criteria or it doesn't. Outcome and reasons etc not an issue , it meets investigation criteria orbit doesn't.

OP should report this to the safeguarding team (mash) and they will do the rest

They are the professionals who are extremely good at their jobs

Who is arguing with that?

But that is a different question from the one in the OP, which is whether this is negligence. And the OP’s subsequent posts about suing make it clear that she means negligence in the legal sense.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

You are talking absolute rubbish

I am a social work safeguarding manager

You really do not understand the legislation and require retraining if you are in any way involved in safeguarding adults . You are dangerous

Please stop 🛑
Go away and redo your training if you have any . - Which I suspect you don't - as those ARE NOT the three statutory s42 safeguarding criteria. I already linked what they are from the statute.

Just because there is a safeguarding concern that meets the s42 statutory safeguarding criteria of allege potential neglect, it does not follow that the allegation will be substantiated as neglect

That is what the a42 safeguarding enquiry is there to determine after gathering all the relevant facts including looking at documentation, including assessment, provider care plans, provider falls risk management plan, incident report and any relevant interviews etc

A statutory safeguarding does not necessarily mean there is a set outcome , nor that an allegation of neglect will be substantiated, that's for the professional team to decide once they have made all their enquiries

Two or three lines on a MN post will not be anywhere near the level of evidence that a SG enquiry worker will look at..!!'

Again, I am not advising the OP on whether there was a safeguarding fail. I am answering her question about whether she can sue the Care Home for negligence, to which the answer is no.

Where have i suggested that she shouldn’t report this as a safeguarding issue? I haven’t.

You’re very quick to throw around accusations about other people’s competence, yet you seem to be missing the fundamental point- which I have explained at least 3 times - that the tests for suing for negligence are not the same as for the thresholds for safeguarding concerns.

What have safeguarding criteria and s42 got to do with the OP suing for negligence? Any legal action against the Home for safeguarding failures would be a criminal prosecution, brought by the CPS, not the OP. A lawsuit for negligence would be under civil law. They are totally different, with totally different criteria.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Because you are trying to predict the outcome of a safeguarding enquiry before it has happened

OP may be talking about suing if there was negligence but the first step is safeguarding enquiry

You are jumping ahead guessing at outcome in a similar manner

At the end of it OP may want to seek legal advice or not. But she has a clear path initially which in this legal advice thread we have explained to her

Your interpretation of SG statutory criteria is wrong. Please let those that can give clear pathway of how she initiates investigation be. This is the way.

You really do not understand the legislation and require retraining if you are in any way involved in safeguarding adults . You are dangerous

The OP was asking if she can sue for negligence. To do that, she would need to meet 3 tests:

Is there a duty of care - yes

Has there been a breach of that duty? Possibly (depending on what any investigation about the missing alarm establishes)

is there a greater than 50% chance that the breach caused the injury.

Test 3 cannot be met here because the absence of the alarm did not lead to the injury.

Which bit do you think is wrong, exactly?

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

** There is a 3 part statutory safeguarding s42 enquiry criteria which is not what you say it is
I quoted the relevant part of Care Act 2014 statue

You are JUMPING AHEAD

Slow down and don't muddy the water by skipping steps

OP is asking what to do, don't get carried away, she meds to report it to LA as a safeguarding concern then awaits outcome of that enquiry,

The rest of it becomes a legal test re outcome if it is substantiated as neglect - for which she then seeks legal advice - but not before statutory investigation occurs

You don't understand safeguarding legislation and also cannot be in legal field in this area, or you would be INSISTING she went through LA's statutory duty process

Thank you for your advice @Tiani4

This may be a stupid question, but do I ask the care home manager if they will be contacting the LA themselves? Do I tell them that I am contacting them?

As I said earlier, an alarm will not prevent falls, it will notify someone of movement, but that movement could be her falling out of bed. I would expect that the care plan is reviewed, and if the alarm is no longer deemed suitable it should be replaced with an alternative measure.