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Original poster

power of attorney

66 replies

POAPITA · 17/03/2023 13:33

I don't know if anyone remembers my old thread on this and I can't find it.

I'm one of 4 adult children. I do all the day to day care and financial management for my fully with it mum.

I'd been added aa a back up attorney for health and welfare without my knowledge and refused to sign the forms. Mum abandoned the whole thing then so no
POA in place.

Now she's done the forms with my older siblings and they have been paid for sent off etc.

The laughable and worrying thing is is that she still doesn't know what these forms are for exactly. She believes they are only for after her death which makes no sense for health and welfare. I've told her I won't be able to liaise with the GP for her if my siblings are POA but maybe that's only if she looses capacity? I don't know and neither does she. They didn't consult a solicitor in the end either.

The sibling who has POA sees her about 6 times a year and wouldn't have a clue when it comes to mums health. It's a joke. When anything happens to mum they will expect me to provide them with all the information and will get angry and say I'm unreasonable if I don't. I've been unreasonable my whole life according to them but I'm good enough to provide daily care. Once mum is gone I'll not need to have any contact with them and won't d

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 17/03/2023 15:01

Not sure if OP said a solicitor was used? Most people just fill in the online form on gov.uk

Comefromaway · 17/03/2023 15:03

I don’t quite understand why you don’t want POA but seem to not want anyone else to have it either.

OP wasn't being offered POA. She was being put down as the back-up attorney so it would only come into effect if both siblings died/lost capacity/refused to be attorneys etc

Original poster
POAPITA · 17/03/2023 15:05

Sorry, both siblings have LPA. For finances and health and welfare. Finance is ticked for immediate effect once registered.

I'll come back and answer other questions later but thank you for the replies.

OP posts:
Kidsfortea · 17/03/2023 15:18

POAPITA · 17/03/2023 14:40

Thank you. So that's as I thought, I won't be able to do all the shopping etc without their say so. That should be fun when I explain to mum that I'm really sorry but I can't do that anymore and my siblings will have to sort it all out. She is reliant on me for buying all gifts, cards, wrapping paper, her weekly shop, top up shops, paying anything online like hills/invoices, paying the gardener. My siblings are not going to want to do this. I don't think any of them properly understand what they have signed.

Go with your mum to her bank and be put onto her account as a third party authority. This will give you a card to do your mums shopping etc. I have this on my dads account as he doesn't use any tech at all.
You could also ask your mum about adding you to the account and making it joint providing it won't mess your tax up.

blitzen · 17/03/2023 15:24

As far as I understand it, you can carry on as usual with whatever arrangements you have with your mum re shopping etc. She consents to your involvement. POA will only kick in if she loses capacity to consent to this arrangement, and at that point will be when the nominated attorneys will have to take over her accounts etc. The health POA is slightly different. You can opt for medical professionals to make decisions, or nominate someone on your behalf to make decisions, eg asking not to be resuscitated or leaving the docs to decide.

Houseplantmad · 17/03/2023 16:48

Yes, see your mum’s bank re being a signatory etc so you can continue your current arrangement.
If/when your mum loses capacity make sure your siblings keep v good records of expenditure as they are answerable. We’ve just been through this where SIL was dishing out money willy nilly claiming her POA allowed this. MIL still had capacity but was unaware of what was going on as SIl controlled all expenditure. It ended up and coming between £30-40k that she benefited but to challenge it legally would have cost a lot.

smellyflowers · 17/03/2023 16:54

POAPITA · 17/03/2023 15:05

Sorry, both siblings have LPA. For finances and health and welfare. Finance is ticked for immediate effect once registered.

I'll come back and answer other questions later but thank you for the replies.

Then as soon as that's given to the bank you won't be able to access it. That may be what they are wanting to stop.

Your mum should seek legal advice and quickly

Original poster
POAPITA · 17/03/2023 18:50

I don't think mum understands at all. She's very trusting and will assume that my siblings know what they are talking about but she can't tell me what it is she's signed other than "nothing changes" which isn't reassuring.
I have mums banking app on my phone and do payments from there for her. I've never been into the bank with her and our local branch has now closed. She's a technophobe and could do all the banking herself but gets me to do it so she doesn't have to learn I think. She has the banking app on her phone too and gets notifications of payments in and out and will check her balance but that's her limit.

I don't know how the funeral will be paid because i don't have any spare money. I'm on UC and officially mums carer on a full time basis for the princely sum of £68 a week from the government. i dont think my siblings have any money either because they've recently told mum to start saving but she's got nothing spare to save.

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 17/03/2023 19:03

With immediate effect does not mean your siblings have control without your mums consent. It means that she can give them consent to either help her, take full control or have no control, whatever she wishes whilst she still has capacity.

Original poster
POAPITA · 17/03/2023 19:09

That's good but does it affect me accessing her money for her and doing her say to day banking? Could my siblings get arsey over it? Every single payment I make has a reference against it so I'm not worried about that aspect but that they might make things difficult and start to question how she spends her money especially as they are suddenly concerned about funeral expenses.

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 17/03/2023 19:32

Technically it’s probably against your mums banking terms to give her PIN number/access to app etc to you. But your siblings have no say over what your mum asks if you whilst she still has capacity.

smellyflowers · 17/03/2023 21:21

POAPITA · 17/03/2023 19:09

That's good but does it affect me accessing her money for her and doing her say to day banking? Could my siblings get arsey over it? Every single payment I make has a reference against it so I'm not worried about that aspect but that they might make things difficult and start to question how she spends her money especially as they are suddenly concerned about funeral expenses.

Yes they absolutely could get arsey about it. You shouldn't be accessing her money.

Original poster
POAPITA · 17/03/2023 21:58

I'm not sure if there's a misunderstanding over the banking. Mum asks me to pay x,y,z and I do that from the app. Or transfer money for so and sos birthday, or pick up some bread, milk, whatever. Once a fortnight age has a supermarket delivery and it's in my name and with my bank account so I pay and then transfer the money over for her shopping. I dont dip into her money, its only ever for things she's asked me to buy for her or pay for her. I can see how it could be a problem though but i doubt she will want to do anything differently.

OP posts:
gingercat02 · 17/03/2023 22:15

MrsLeonFarrell · 17/03/2023 14:33

To use her bank account or pay bills on her behalf you need to have Financial POA otherwise you are technically doing something illegal and could face problems of someone queries what you are spending .

If they have received the registered copies back then they are effective immediately for financial but only when she loses capacity for health. It is probably worth ringing the Office of the Public Guardian for advice.

I completely get what a pain it is to have these held by someone who isn't doing the day to day support. It nearly happened to me but I managed to avoid it.

Not exactly true. I was registered with Mum's bank as having an interest and was offered my own card on her account which wasn't necessary at the time.

DemonSpawn · 17/03/2023 22:24

You definitely need to stop paying for things from your bank account and transferring the money to you afterwards - that is asking for trouble from your siblings as I suspect they will start to crack down on what is spent and on what.

Once your siblings have financial POA you will not be able to use her app or account either without even more legal trouble!

I see a lot of pain and hassle for you and your mum coming soon if you don’t stop your siblings - it sounds like they are trying to line themselves up for a cash-cow, maybe even taking out an equity release loan on your mums house or something.

Original poster
POAPITA · 17/03/2023 22:29

There's very little money in the house. It's still mortgaged. Mum did look into equity release a few years back and was told no.
We will have to work out something else regarding the shopping. Mum wouldn't want any difficulties for me or for her.

OP posts:
Original poster
POAPITA · 17/03/2023 22:57

How could I do things differently?

OP posts:
MrsLeonFarrell · 18/03/2023 13:36

gingercat02 · 17/03/2023 22:15

Not exactly true. I was registered with Mum's bank as having an interest and was offered my own card on her account which wasn't necessary at the time.

Show quote history

I didn't realise this was possible I was told differently (although bearing in mind it was by my brother who always gets things wrong ..), that's good information to have.

gingercat02 · 18/03/2023 14:04

It was Santander. May not be a thing in all banks

Original poster
POAPITA · 18/03/2023 14:20

It sounds like it's going to be some time before they are registered and active so that gives us time to sort something regarding the bank. I know my siblings won't sort her shopping and present buying out for her. They are only thinking of the house sale when that happens rather than the every day banking and expenditure. They insist that nothing will change but I don't see how that is possible and I think it puts both mum and me in a vulnerable position.

OP posts:
JamMakingWannaBe · 18/03/2023 14:43

You need to buy her groceries using her debit/credit card. What is the reason you are not doing this already?

Original poster
POAPITA · 18/03/2023 14:49

Because I'd have to be in possession of her card all the time meaning she wouldn't have it. I do online shopping for the supermarket and local shopping. If local
Shopping I'd do it on the way to her house. To use her card I'd have to go there first and then shop adding a lot of walking to the day which I don't have time for. I don't drive and no bus. It's 25/30 mins each way. I'd have no time to do anything else.

OP posts:
smellyflowers · 18/03/2023 15:00

POAPITA · 17/03/2023 21:58

I'm not sure if there's a misunderstanding over the banking. Mum asks me to pay x,y,z and I do that from the app. Or transfer money for so and sos birthday, or pick up some bread, milk, whatever. Once a fortnight age has a supermarket delivery and it's in my name and with my bank account so I pay and then transfer the money over for her shopping. I dont dip into her money, its only ever for things she's asked me to buy for her or pay for her. I can see how it could be a problem though but i doubt she will want to do anything differently.

Yes but you shouldn't be doing it and if she can't then the poa might need to kick in. It's a really tricky ground legally

Original poster
POAPITA · 18/03/2023 15:07

If this just a problem due to the LPA now? Up to this point surely if she's given her consent and has asked me to do things the way we are doing then that is ok? She doesn't have any dementia or confusion. She sometimes gives my sister her bank card to get things and my sister takes money out for petrol too. £40 for a 10 mile round journey ffs.

OP posts:
Original poster
POAPITA · 18/03/2023 16:02

I'm not sure how to find a way to resolve this. Siblings are too busy and live too far away to do day to day banking or shopping or anything. Mum will not learn to do anything online herself and can't physically get to the bank. Is there a way round this bearing in mind the LPA for finance being effective now (once registered) and that I am not one of the attorneys?

OP posts: