Help with seeing a will…

[HappySonHappyMum]

My DF died last year - I won't bore you with the details but it's safe to say that his new wife made it very difficult for him to keep in contact with us and we hadn't seen him for many years. She sent a letter to me a few years ago saying my DF had written my DB and I and his grandchildren (my DCs) out of his will - it was a 'you're getting nothing - I'm getting everything' letter. Yesterday my DCs ( 1 is and adult, 1 is a child) have received letters from her saying my DF had left them some money in his will. Are they entitled to see the will as they are beneficiaries? I know I can get a copy of the will once he has probate but does he need probate when he has a surviving spouse? It's very confusing and I'm wondering if she has lied to us. We are in England.

Until probate is granted, the only people entitled to see the will are the executors.

Having a surviving spouse doesn't tell us anything about whether probate is required. If he owned property in his own name or as tenants in common, probate will be required. If he owned shares in his own name, probate will be required. If he had any bank or building society accounts in his own name, probate may be required depending on how much is in them and the rules of the bank.

The very fact his wife had to go out of her way to let you know that you were written out of the Will a few years ago, suggests to me that either she’s lied and hopes you don’t bother asking to see the Will, or the Will probably hasn’t been drawn up properly or genuinely.
Now she’s saying that your DC’s have been left some money after all. I’d say she’s decided that this is the best option (give your DC’s something), hoping that you’ll ‘go away’ and won’t look any further into what your DF really wanted to leave.

As prh47 says.

You can check if probate has been granted on the gov website, and if it has, you can download a copy of the will for a nominal fee.

It’s good news your DC will be beneficiaries after all.

@Watchingthetiderollaway I think you're right - I think she's lying. I know years ago when my DF was still married to my DM there was a will. She won't tell me what she's going to do with his ashes, I've been pushing again very recently via her son to get old photos and the like from her, and have been trying for nearly a year and so far I have nothing, she's being obstructive. In the letter she sent a few years ago she said that my DF didn't know she was sending a letter but that she was enclosing a codicil that he was adding to his will writing us all out. @prh47bridge @NoSquirrels He owned a house with his wife, he had bank accounts and shares so it sounds like he might need probate. Am I right in thinking that all the wishes of his will have to be carried out before probate can be granted?

When he remarried, any previous wills became invalid. He would have had to make a new will upon marriage, if he wanted to leave anything to anyone else other than his wife.

Probate is granted before the money can be distributed. Probate comes first, not the other way around. So I’d check the online portal if I were you, especially if it’s been many months since his death.

@NoSquirrels Have just checked the portal but there is no record of probate in his name yet. If probate comes before distribution of assets I am even more suspicious of this 'money in his will', she asked for my DCs dates of birth too, why does she need this? He died in January 2022 - is there a time limit on probate?

It may still be that he did not need probate. It all depends.

He owned a house with his wife, he had bank accounts and shares so it sounds like he might need probate

If the house was owned as joint tenants (between married couples this is most common unless one of them insists otherwise) then the house automatically passed to his wife. Same with the savings and shares if they were jointly owned. If you’ve been estranged from your dad for some time it’s hard for you to know whether his estate would need probate.

Here is the info off gov site.

You may not need probate if the person who died:
^^
only had savings
owned shares or money with others - this automatically passes to the surviving owners unless they’ve agreed otherwise
owned land or property as ‘joint tenants’ with others - this automatically passes to the surviving owners

I don’t think there’s any harm in disclosing the children’s dates of birth, but I don’t know why she needs it.

I think as the parent of a minor you can act on their behalf to ask to see the will.

But, ask yourself what do you want to find out? Do you think there’s a will and she’s not dealing with it correctly (because you could also be a beneficiary)?

Or is it actually just good news that the DC will get a bequest from your dad and leave it at that?

@NoSquirrels I want to know because I don't trust her. Their whole life was built on a lie - from the cheating behind my DMs back (she was my DMs best friend), the lying to my extended family about our non-appearance at their wedding (we didn't find out they were married until he died last year), to the not calling us to say my DF was in hospital with Covid until he was on end of life care because 'she couldn't work out how to use my DFs phone'. I could go on. I think the news of a bequest is a distraction technique to stop me asking awkward questions at best. But no probate means no answers to any of my questions as she'd rather cut out her tongue than let me have a copy of the will. It feels like she's paying my kids off and hoping I'll be grateful enough to leave things alone. I'll keep checking that website though to see if probate is ever given and I really appreciate they time you've taken to help me today.

I very much sympathise with you @HappySonHappyMum - my DH had similar with his DF and second marriage and not seeing the will, and the same with sentimental childhood things - all refused by his second wife, who inherited everything. It’s horrible. But it’s also one of those issues in life where perhaps you have to allow the shit thing to happen in order to get closure. I am sorry. I hope your DC get a decent sum from their grandfather at the least.

The very fact his wife had to go out of her way to let you know that you were written out of the Will a few years ago, suggests to me that either she’s lied and hopes you don’t bother asking to see the Will, or the Will probably hasn’t been drawn up properly or genuinely.

Not necessarily. My step-mother told me quite cheerfully that she and my Dad wouldn't be leaving anything to me and my brother in his will, about a year before he died. She's going to leave it all to their 3 children when she dies, nothing to me and my brother the children from his first marriage.

And she wonders why I don't keep in touch much!

@NoSquirrels I doubt they'll get much - they've been lucky to get a £10 voucher for their birthdays or Christmas throughout their lives - but only when he actually remembered. It's never been about the money though, I'd have swapped every penny for contact with him instead. @LindorDoubleChoc If I only knew why people behaved this way - I'm sorry you're having to deal with this too. I wish my SM would leave us alone, she wrote to my DD on her birthday last year asking her to keep the letter secret from me and had a go at me in it. She's a proper nasty one.

Just coming back to this thread - we are now a month on and my DCs have head nothing from the SM. I am beginning to wonder if this was a tactic that she thought might make me contact her to see what's going on. I think she's been expecting me to ask her for his money - just so she can tell me to do one. It's probably killing her inside that I haven't engaged with her at all.

Finally heard from the SM - she needed the DOBs because my DF wrote that my DCs would not get any inheritance until they are 20 'so they didn't fritter it away' - as if. They are to receive a small amount of cash each. My DS asked for a copy of the Will and she sent it although she told him he wasn't legal entitled to see it - I am gobsmacked by this although she probably sent it to get pleasure in the fact the myself and brother were written out completely. In it my DF has left their house in trust until the SM dies and then my DCs will get 15% each and her sons will get the rest. The SM is allowed to live there until she dies. My questions are can she ignore this part of my DFs Will and prevent my DCs from receiving this inheritance after she dies by writing her own Will to revoke this? The first line of the Will says "I give free of Inheritance Tax all my interest in [address]" - the house is owned by them both jointly can she say she owns 99% of it and him 1% to prevent my DCs receiving this inheritance. I'm not clear how this works at all. Should we contact the Solicitor now we know the they are the Trustees and give them my DCs contact details as there are none in the Will?

I presume the house was owned as tenants in common, in which case your father owned 50% of it unless there was a declaration of trust saying otherwise. She cannot now alter that.

He has given her a life interest in his share of the house. She cannot alter what happens to his share when she dies. Your children will each get 15% of your father's share of the house.

@prh47bridge Thanks for your reply! They were named as joint owners on the title deeds and there is no mention of a declaration of trust. Does this mean they will get 15% each of my DFs 50% or 15% each of the whole 100%? Do you think we should inform the Trustees of our DCs address as they have no contact details at all and she many live for another 15-20 years?

If the house is owned as tenants in common, they will each get 15% of your father's 50%.

It won't do any harm to make contact with the trustees.