Question about prohibitive steps order

[pansypan32]

My ex and I don't have any legals in place regarding our child. I do the majority of the childcare and pay the majority of the costs.

She is two and I want to move an hour and 45 minutes away, as I cannot afford the current area I'm in and am working two jobs whilst trying to pay all the bills.

I have the opportunity to move to a family property which will have much cheaper rent and enable me to work full time and spend more time with daughter.

I have said my ex can have full weekends every other weekend and I would drive to his for drop off and we meet half way for collection. I have said he can see her on the alternative weekends too and have longer holiday periods throughout the year. He agreed that it would be a better lifestyle move for our daughter but said he is not happy about the distance and can stop me moving.

The only way I can see he can stop me moving is with a prohibitive steps order. I feel I am being reasonable and have even suggested he move nearer (as cheaper properties for him too and he has no ties to the area). He rarely sees daughter in the week due to work. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have even read he could get an emergency order, which seems extreme.

Yes Ive worked in the private and public family courts (and within statutory services) for nearly 20 years

that makes me feel old!

@bellac11 that's impressive but I was updating my Cv this weekend ahead of possible move and I have worked in the same industry for twenty years too! Maybe why I'm finding juggling a two year old, full time work and freelance so hard!!!

Thanks for advice. Could I ask one more question? If he doesn't take legal action, but says he's unhappy about the move even though I will have put a fair contact plan in place can I still move? I ideally don't want to take this to court and am planning driving her to his door the weekends he has her and meeting half way for drop off. If he won't compromise, I'm not sure what else I can do.

I typed out a long reply and lost it!

Legally you can move. It might be safer to take the initiative and get your specific issues order

The court will want to know whats in her best interest, they need to look at her emotional welfare, education, health, a whole host of things

In this case, contact is going to be harder but you need to set out a chronology for yourself of what you have suggested in order to maintain and sustain the relationship she has with her dad
she wont experience disruption in education
I assume as you havent mentioned it she isnt having medical treatment that would be disrupted by a move like this
Is she going to be closer to, or further away from your family and her father's family?
How would the lack of move impact her, ie you might become homeless if you cannot afford to say where you are, you might need to work even more hours leaving her in more child care hours. She might have less acess to things if you cant afford to fund things she needs.

You dont need his permission but equally he could make his own application.

@bellac11 all really helpful thank you.

At the moment I have her during the week and we share weekends. Essentially he'd spend more time with her and I would like to try and make sure he has access to her three weekends out of the four, so that wouldn't change.

At the moment I work full time. If I moved I would be able to work part time and spend more time with my daughter in the week than childcare. She is at nursery full time, which I find myself without help from father (part of the reason I have no money).

I would essentially be living with my parents who live half the year in this country and half the year abroad. My ex's parents don't live in this country, hence the lack of support we have as we both work full time and don't have support. If she is ill, it is always me who has to take time from my job until she is better putting even more pressure on things. Sorry for so much detail and appreciate your reply

@bellac11 also sorry to ask another question what is a specific order

It sounds like you have a good case, however I would also urge you to consider long term.

Right now you're happy to drive her the 2 hours there and back for weekend contact. What about if you got another partner and were heavily pregnant or had another baby to look after? What about when your DD is older and she has extra curricular activities or sports that have games on weekends? Or she is invited to friends birthday parties on the weekends she's supposed to be 2 hours away at dad's?

Distances like this don't tend to work as children get older and have their own lives near their primary residence. Your DD will resent him if he makes her come to his when she wants to go to this party, or go to shops with friends, or play in x match or dance in y recital, but the other option is that she doesn't see him!

I understand the move makes it easier for you in many ways, but you can't expect him to be happy about it.

A specific issue is what it says on the tin, you would be asking about this specific issue - a move to a different location (this is within england and wales isnt it?)

So seeking the courts permission to agree that an order is in place for that specific issue that you can move

The courts have to consider the balance. One might say, given the information that you've provided about his contact, that there is no impact on contact at all. Maybe its the emotional feeling that she is further away that is driving his worry that things would change. Or are the proposals you have made not possible given his own routine?

If it were me I would probably just go ahead and move, or at least make your plans to. If he makes application then see what happens although are you in rented at the moment that you would give notice on?

@bellac11 again really helpful advice. Yes am in rented accommodation. Have looked to find cheaper Accommodation here but it's all so expensive. It's also my mental health to be honest, as it's just too much for me. I would be hoping to hand my notice in around February, looking to move around April time.
I'd obviously have to hand notice in property too.

@HowcanIhelp123 totally get your points they all make valid sense. But if I can't afford my rent and childcare and my ex can't provide anymore funds I'm not sure what else I'm meant to do

What I would also do is compile a list, perhaps from Rightmove or Zoopla of alternative properties in the same area and the costs of those to show how you've considered moving to a different property but that it wouldnt solve the problem of affording the rent

@bellac11 thank you. I assume for my ex and not for the court (or obviously could be used for court if needed)

I get that, you might need to move anyway, but it will hugely impact his relationship with his daughter. You say your DD is 2, shouldn't she be getting 30 hours free childcare at 3? How much will that bring your childcare bill down? Enough for you to just keep 1 job?

Yes, the ideal out of this is that despite his worry, he feels 'ok' with the move and understands that perhaps theres no way round it

I was asking about your notice on the property because what you dont want is him making an application and an interim order being put in place preventing her moving in the meantime before the court makes a final determination.

Or in fact you making your application and finding that due to the huge backlogs in court at the moment that you dont get a final outcome which messes around with your tenancy.

Thats worse case scenario but its possible.

It will be a whole year until she is is eligible for 39 hours free childcare. This is also only from term time. It seems a lot of stress and mental load for me to take on, when my ex moved away originally and cannot provide anything more than basic CMS payments. If he saw her every day in the week, fair enough but I feel it wouldn't actually impact contact that much. Yes, in three years time when she starts school it might. But at that point my ex could have moved away himself. He needs to compromise at some point... he could also move nearer to where I'm going.

Some people on here move away from the other parent for new partners etc. that’s selfish. What you’re suggesting isn’t, it seems a (not perfect for everyone) solution, while your child is still young enough to adjust easily. I hope he sees your side.

@bellac11 do you think he would be given an emergency prohibitive steps order? I am only move an hour and half away. He is also not in a position to have her full time 50/50 because of his job and he can't afford childcare. I think I will do as you suggest lay out everything for him, get him involved in the plans and decision making and hope he will agree and plan ahead with the move. If I move and the court orders me to move back, who will pay for my accommodation if I can't afford it? He did also move out and move 40 mins away when he left.

A court wouldnt order you to move back if you had already moved. Theoretically they could order her to live with him but only if he applied for that (which he wouldnt), if he could meet her needs and it was in her best interests

What theoretically could happen, is that an interim order is used to prevent her moving in the first place. Obviously if you were already gone by that point, it would be too late.

Him moving is a red herring because the court wouldnt be considering that matter so dont get hung up and distracted by that. Although did the move he made, make your proposed move further from him than it would have been?

I was only asking the question, you said she was 2. She could have just turned 2 yesterday or be turning 3 tomorrow.

I said from the start you had a good case. Is it also possible he moved the 40 mins away because he himself can't afford the area? Imagine him standing up in court claiming you can't move when you're saying you can't afford to stay when he himself was forced to move. You're moving to family support, could substantially reduce your outgoings, you're willing to facilitate same level of contact, he wouldn't be willing to care for your daughter full time so can't reverse custody to him if you moved anyway (because while they can ban you taking your daughter they can't stop you moving yourself) and you're moving before school so no education disruption.

You have a problem and found a solution that works best for you. I'm just saying that long term this could severely disrupt your daughters relationship with her dad so is there another solution that may not be as perfect for you but would maintain contact better. It might be a case that there isn't and moving is still best, but you will be asked these questions if he took you to court. Why you need to move, why it has to be there rather than say halfway where the distance between you would be maintained at current levels? The answers to those questions are clear, but you need to be prepared for them to be asked.

Very rare they say no. A friends ex tried to get a PSO - he had moved 100 miles away back to his hometown when their child was a mere 6 months old, and she wanted to move 100 miles in the other direction (child was 10 at the time) for several reasons, including financial, support system, etc. Both self repped.

She said the judge looked really confused, asked what his problem was considering he moved away when their son was a baby, and she had already spent 9.5 years going to his hometown to drop their child off and then to pick him up too? Her ex was belligerent. He walked out with no PSO, but an order that he was the one to do all the travel from now on.

@HowcanIhelp123 sorry to sound defensive. I just am so aware that everything I'm doing has a knock on effect and I am really trying to do my best. I just know I can't continue in my current situation as my mental health and stress load is suffering as well as my bank balance and my daughter deserves better than that if I have the opportunity to give it to her xxx

I moved 25 miles away, two counties, 30 minutes drive. My solicitor put it in court that I could have been living at the other side of my home city & it would have been 40 minutes minimum drive to exh, probably more in rush hour. The judge never said a word against me moving.