Question about prohibitive steps order

[pansypan32]

My ex and I don't have any legals in place regarding our child. I do the majority of the childcare and pay the majority of the costs.

She is two and I want to move an hour and 45 minutes away, as I cannot afford the current area I'm in and am working two jobs whilst trying to pay all the bills.

I have the opportunity to move to a family property which will have much cheaper rent and enable me to work full time and spend more time with daughter.

I have said my ex can have full weekends every other weekend and I would drive to his for drop off and we meet half way for collection. I have said he can see her on the alternative weekends too and have longer holiday periods throughout the year. He agreed that it would be a better lifestyle move for our daughter but said he is not happy about the distance and can stop me moving.

The only way I can see he can stop me moving is with a prohibitive steps order. I feel I am being reasonable and have even suggested he move nearer (as cheaper properties for him too and he has no ties to the area). He rarely sees daughter in the week due to work. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have even read he could get an emergency order, which seems extreme.

I understand why you want to move but you must realize that you'd be cutting off a close relationship for your child and ex. It's a very big deal. I have to be honest that if I were in his position, I'd try to stop it.

I think your best bet would be to work this out with him without resorting to legal solutions because you just don't know how that might work out. And there would probably be animosity, which would make everything harder. Don't ever assume that because you have primary custody now, that you'll always have the upper hand. Do whatever you can to work with him.

I'd sit down with him and present your idea about his moving. Make it very clear you want to encourage his relationship with the child and that the decision to move is about being a better parent and giving the kid opportunities you currently can't provide. Maybe even offer to help him find a place to live and a job. I don't mean that you have to hold his hand, but it wouldn't hurt to ask your family to keep an eye out. Good luck.

@Antst I have done all the below. I have asked hint to come up with a solution, as if I stay in my current situation I will end up severely in debt. Perhaps the question could also be, what can he do to make my life easier for me and my daughter? Because whenever I ask him this he never seems to have a solution.

@pansypan32, if you have tried to work this out with him, if he is not making a decision, then I suggest giving him a deadline. Tell him:

"I can't afford to live here as a single parent and also parent. My only option that I see is to move. I have tried to work this out with you and want a solution that works for both of us, but so far you haven't agreed to move to the area and you're not giving me any other solutions. So I'm going to have to set an end date on these discussions. I'll start making arrangements to move three months from now. That way you have time to look for a new job and housing if you decide to move. I hope you do."

This way you're being clear, you're giving him an end date on the dithering with plenty of time for him to make arrangements. I hope this works out but if he doesn't agree you should do whatever you can to keep that child in the same town he's in. The child is the most vulnerable one here. Good luck.

@Antst I have done this. Just for your information when he left the family home he decided to move forty minutes away. It's a shame he didn't give the same consideration to us. He also left whilst I was still on maternity leave with no money to pay rent or bills!

How much financial support is he providing you to raise his child?

@BruceAndNosh £300 a month. Which is what he should. But my childcare bill is just under £2k a month and I don't qualify for help from the state and am a middle earner. Hence why I do two jobs. He is heavily in debt so can't afford more.

The courts can’t stop you moving. Only your daughter. So if that were to be the ruling your ex would have to become the resident parent. If that’s not something he wants you’re in a stronger position legally than he has made you think.

@pansypan32, OK, well if he was the one who left and he didn't leave money for his share of bills, then I think moving where you can afford to work and parent is the only sensible solution. I still suggest the gentle approach I outlined though. Don't antagonize him. Give him plenty of warning about your plans. It may not be fair that you have to tiptoe around him but it's the way to get what you want.

@Antst thanks for your rational advice! Appreciate it and I'm no way doing this to prevent contact

@Martialisthebestpup this is true! He could have her one night in the week but there is no way he could have her full time around his job and he couldn't pay for childcare. Obviously I wouldn't want that either

@pansypan32, yes, you're very clearly trying to navigate this situation as cleanly as possible. If there's any way you can keep a record of your efforts (like emailing or texting him requests to discuss how he can move, etc) so there's an electronic trail available in case he takes legal action, I'd do that.

@Antst this is a good idea. I first broached the subject a week ago and haven't mentioned it again since. We talked over the phone. He gets really angry if I text him things like this. It's so hard as I see it as a great opportunity for my daughter to spend more time with me in the week and more time with her dad at the weekend. He sees it as her being further away, more travel and an inconvenience. He basically wants his cake and to eat it without paying anymore financial contribution. Also, he lives in a tiny one bedroom flat, which as my daughter grows will not be fair for her not have her own space.

@pansypan32, well, I think it's important to keep the situation as calm as possible but at the same time, there are battles you might have to fight. I'd make absolutely sure to keep an electronic record of your efforts to involve him in the child's life and in the move. You don't have to text/email him every day, but if you're meeting either on the phone or in person to talk about logistics every week or two, I'd at least text something like, "are you available tonight to discuss how we can get you to <your parents' village> so you can have regular contact with your child."

If he calls you, you could avoid picking up and then text him, "missed your call but I can call back now to talk about how to get us all down to <village>."

It will be inconvenient for him to have to drive an hour and a half. It's a huge shame for the child. But if he walked out on you and you can't afford where you are and/or feel isolated, he created the situation and should be working with you to figure out how to move. Maybe your move will light a fire under him and he'll do it then.

Just do your best to stay calm and keep him informed. His anger is not your responsibility.

@Antst I really appreciate your advice. Sometimes on here I get advice always sticking up for the father and I get defensive as I'm not trying to stop contact. I don't feel an hour and a half is a long distance if staying one or two nights. If you were going there and back in a day maybe. It's not ideal at all. I've looked for other places to rent round where I leave but tney are mor expensive than where I rent already. I am isolated as I live essentially in the middle of nowhere and have to go everywhere by car xxx

@Antst also am more than willing to do drop off to his door and meet half way for collection which would be an extra fifteen minutes to his current journey.

@pansypan32, you've clearly thought very carefully about this. Any court will be concerned with what's best for the child and you are trying to do what's best. Involve the father and also support the child by being there and financially.

There's no perfect solution in a situation like this. What really struck me was your comment that he has no ties to your current area. If he could just as easily live/work close to your parents, then that's what he should do in the best interests of the child. You can't see any options as far as staying where you are and you've tried to include him at every step.

Don't beat yourself up. You're doing what you can and he is doing nothing to help himself continue to be an involved parent. Stay calm with him, give him access to the child, inform him of your plans, give him plenty of warning. That's all you can do. He may come back with reasons to feel like a victim but he is not a victim. You need to realize that just because he is being critical, that doesn't mean you're in the wrong.

After hearing what you've had to say, I can't think of anything you could be doing that you're not doing. Give yourself a pat on the back and try to stop worrying.

@Antst such wonderful words, thank you. When I told my mum his reaction her response was 'it's all about him and not about you or Child, there is no compromise.' I offered him every weekend with her, but that also wasn't good enough as he said he would want some weekends to himself (which I totally understand but in normal circumstances you don't have a choice when you have a child. If you have a child you have to them all the time.

I really appreciate your comment about even though he's critical it doesn't mean I'm in the wrong. He has always made me feel in the wrong whatever I do, so I feel he's doing this here. He does have a job where he lives, but his industry is such that he could find similar roles anywhere in the country. Anyway, I will stop rambling but really appreciate your great advice and really measured response

If he doesn't like to text these discussions and prefers to discuss over the phone, could you follow up each discussion with an email so that you have a record

@pansypan32, yes, it's obvious that you're stressed about trying to manage his reactions. You can't let that stress get to you. He wants you to feel guilty, he wants to paint himself as the victim. Stay calm and be confident that if he knows the plan and doesn't respond to it, his situation is 100% on him.

And @Dartsplayer is right. You can write an email to him and make a dated diary entry to write down what each phone call was about. Maybe start a file on your phone/computer to record when you spoke to him about arrangements. I hope this works out for you.

Thank you @Antst and @Dartsplayer really appreciate your helpful advice. Off to bed now feeling a little less anxious about things. And yes to staying calm, I'm not great at that as still sleep deprived two years on 😂

1hr 45mjns is not unreasonable, you have valid reasons for the move in terms of your and your child's well-being. You've offered reasonable adjustments for transportation between households for contact.

What you don't say is what your current informal contact arrangements are. It sounds like your daughter lives with you? But if you're currently 50:50 and you're proposing a reduction that could be an issue if he goes to court

@jayhoo we share weekends. Sometimes he will have her whole weekend and other times I will. Occasionally he pop round after work but this is the exception not the norm. I've done all doctors/hospital appointments since she was born too.

You don't have to be passive in this and wait for him to do something. You can apply for a specific issues order for the court to approve you moving the child.

You have to try mediation first.

If it ends up in court, offer the alternate weekends, holidays, Father's Day, some of birthday etc., but whatever you do, don't offer every weekend. Once she starts school you will want some weekends with her yourself.

I cannot see any reason whatsoever for the court to not agree to you moving. It's only 90 minutes away, and you say it only adds 15 minutes to his current journey time if you bring her half way. Given he moved first he cannot now argue that you have to stay put for his convenience.

If that 300 is not CMS calculated, I suggest you look into using the CMS.

A court wont grant a PSO on the basis of a move 2 hours away given your financial circumstances and the possible impact on your daughter if you dont move in terms of financials

However I agree that its not ideal for your daughter and may impact negatively on her relationship with her father but equally yoru ability to work closely with him as a joint parent

@JustAnotherLawyer2 thank you so much for this information. May I ask if your background is in family law? I am not doing the move to stop him seeing my daughter, so would suggest every other weekend. He's always been able to spend special occasions with her and his birthday etc and I would offer seven days every quarter for him to have her (for when he wants to use his holiday). The trouble is, at the moment it's really convenient for him. If he needs to work at the weekend he only sees her Sunday etc and the new arrangement would mean more organisation and commitment from his part. I think my only concern of taking the lead is if for whatever reason they don't let me move, but I guess we'd hope it would be sorted out by mediation anyway. Thanks for pointing out the not being passive. For some reason he has a real hold of me since splitting up. He's called me mental and I need help etc etc and I guess it's made me feel I'm always in the wrong. Thanks so much for your advice

@bellac11 similarly thanks so much for your advice. Can I ask the experience you have with prohibitive steps order? It's not ideal situation for her and her father's relationship but I would do everything I can to make sure they have regular contact.