50/50 shared care?

[DADKiwi]

Hello all,
The following is an excerpt from the family court order regarding the child arrangements following my divorce.

For some time I've felt a touch aggrieved that I've been paying CM to my ex given childcare is at least 50%. IMHO I actually have them in my care more than she does given I have them most weekends, take them (and pay for) swimming and gymnastics. We have them an equal number of nights over a 2 week period and we share the cost of everything. I buy presents and take them to 100% of the birthday parties

Most of the time she has them they're actually at school - so actual waking hours looking after them (they're 6 and 8) I have them for quite a few more hours. The ex gets CB payment.

Before I consider the CMS route I'd appreciate any thoughts from the forum.

Wording follows
Subject to paragraph 11 below, during school term time, the children shall live
with the applicant and the respondent on an alternate week basis as follows:
a. Week 1
i. From Sunday afternoon (between 12pm and 3pm) until Thursday
afternoon with the applicant.
ii. From Thursday afternoon until Monday morning with the
respondent.
b. Week 2
i. From Monday morning until Thursday afternoon with the
applicant.
ii. From Thursday afternoon until Sunday afternoon (between 12pm
and 3pm) with the respondent.
10. Subject to paragraph 12 below, during school holidays, the children shall live with
the applicant and the respondent on an alternate week basis as follows:
a. Week 1
i. From Sunday afternoon (between 12pm and 3pm) until Thursday
morning with the applicant.
ii. From Thursday morning until Monday morning with the
respondent.
b. Week 2
i. From Monday morning until Thursday morning with the applicant.
ii. From Thursday morning until Sunday afternoon (between 12pm
and 3pm) with the respondent.

I pick them up from school every Thursday. I then have them until Monday morning (dropping at school) they are then back with me again after school on Thurs but this time they go back to their Mum on a Sunday afternoon - instead of me taking them to school on the Monday - she does.
Overall it means the same number of nights. I have hem all weekend in week 1. I have them 1.5 weekend days (until Sunday afternoon) in week 2.

Go for it. You are probably the main parent with care. Be careful though. The DWP/CMS are useless over shared care and will simply assume whoever gets the child benefit is entitled to maintenance. You can successfully challenge this in tribunal but it's a faff.

This link suggests CMS should not be merely looking at where child benefits are paid.
www.nacsa.co.uk/equal-shared-care

Equal Shared Care v Shared Care Band Equal
In cases where parents have absolute equal care of their child/ren, legislation may prevent an application for child maintenance payments to be made.

In previous schemes, parents who had absolute equal shared care were still liable to pay maintenance.
The Non Resident Parent being defined entirely by the person who did not receive child benefit for the children.
CMS should no longer determine the role of parents by way of a claim to child benefit.

Why was this agreed? Does your Ex work? Do they pay for before and after school care? Why can't you alternate the weekends?

I know that. I'm a solcitor and my work at times involves CMS tribunal work. I know what they should be doing but they're not. Thought I made that clear in my post.

Maintenance is calculated on overnights so from that stance it doesn't matter than you have them for more weekend days. However usually on 50/50 care no maintenance is owed. Was it court ordered or a private arrangement?

CMS operate on a child benefit presumption so anyone who claims the CB can put in a claim for maintenance and the onus is on the other parent to prove they're the main cater. The guidelines are here

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1096149/volume-1-basic-principles.pdf#page15

You could put in a claim for child benefit but you'd need to prove you paid more towards childcare, activities, and did the majority or doctor and dental appointments and were seen as the primary carer by schools etc.

Is there a bit difference between what you and your ex earn? If not maybe you could claim for one child each and stop the maintenance?

Lots of dads on 50/50 are paying CMS. I have put in a freedom of information request to find out what percentage of dads on 50/50 are paying CMS. I expect over 90%.

Inherently biased system. Total shambles and not fit for purpose.

Presumption that mums do all the care in 50/50 is inherently discriminatory and based in 1960s group think.

A least you have knowledge of the tribunal system as that's where you will end up.

So even if the Dad had 75% care but Mum gets CB - she woulds till be entitled to CMS? System is broken.

No. It means whoever gets the CB is entitled to put in a claim for maintenance. The onus is then on the other parent to prove they have equal or more care.

If you're sure you are the majority carer why don't you put in a claim for CB with your evidence and let it go to a decision maker? Got to be better than moaning on a forum.

I'm not the majority carer (it is 50% each) and I don't want CB. I just want to stop paying CM.

Like most dads unfortunately if your ex is so inclined she can make your life miserable through CMS. The reason my CMS claim has not been shut down has been cherry picked and all evidence submitted - nursery costs, clothes, registration at GP/dentis, holidays, separate parents evenings, medical appointments ignored. Arbitrary evidence from 3 years ago selected.

She will say she is the primary carer you will likely be ignored by CMS. Hopefully you won't but that's my experience.

As Collaborate says, you may need to go to tribunal to get this sorted.

Start the process and steps to get to tribunal - think it's mandatory reconsideration first. My husband went through this process. He didn't get 50/50 care awarded but the reason was quite enlightening and highlights that it Definitely is not based on who claims child benefit, or number of night, as the CMS will try to convince you. Husband had child 3 nights, ex 4.... however the day in question where she has that extra 4th night, his child was in his care all day as long as possible so that the day to day care was provided by him. All though shared care was not awarded by the tribunal the reason why was NOT the 4th night the ex has the child it was because the ex takes the child to dental appts. To clarify, his ex was always very difficult about hospital appts and dental appts refusing to tell him when they were or allow him to take his child. In hindsight, this was clearly a tactical decision on her part to ensure control of the shared care issue to maintain a financial payment. Hope this helps. The system is really bizarre as it was acknowledged in the judgement that everything else he is doing his share. Good luck xx

Confirmed.

Same issues. Whoever registers with the dentist and GP first wins.

Absolutely bonkers you would not believe a government department would make decisions about the sharing of day to day care based on who registered at the dentist first.

But it's true.

I am sure this is common knowledge in some quarters and exploited.

I'd just be happy that by having your child on the weekends you get more quality time together.You surely can't be paying much in maintenance if it's 50/50?

My husband took this philosophy to begin with - dont rock the boat... it's not much (even though he had all his costs to cover as everything was bought and duplicated at both houses... nothing shared eg uniform, sports clothing etc). However, what I can share 12 years down the line is that it is about fairness. When both have shared care and the same costs why is one paying the other? Particularly when the 'other' is also getting child benefit? In addition what we have learn in hindsight is that it's about a level of control. Keeping a CMS claim turned out to be tactical as: as soon as his child was of an age were they didn't require as much supervision, my husbands ex then wanted to reduce the time he had his child (only term time mind- wanted him to have him half the time in school holidays as childcare)... and then when that wasn't successful and they old routine was kept then came false claims to get an fiu investigation to get CMS payments based on my wages (wife). Went to tribunal and won thankfully but it was 3 years of stress and our view is that keeping the CMS case, no matter how small a payment it seemed initially, was all part of a long game of controlling access, number of nights, money etc. from what we have experienced I just don't see why if each parent is sharing care why a CMS case is needed.

If you are considering taking this to tribunal, feel free to direct message my username as my husband said he can scan a copy of the tribunal decision 'statement of reasons' if this is helpful to preparing your application for tribunal.

Exactly, I am being asked to pay £500.00 a month as ex has historically taken children to the dentist.

Say a child is a newborn on 50/50 and one parent is paying CMS.

£500 a month a year until "child" graduates = £126,000 lifetime CMS payments for registering at the dentist and taking to the dentist twice a year.

BONKERS.

Totally agree - it seems the system is way behind the times. The %'s haven't been looked at for an age, it seems grounded in the older family dynamics of one wage households which really isn't reflective of today. It only looks at one parents wage, not both like some other countries do. And as you say, twice a year dental visits is what it all pivots on. Although TBF my husbands tribunal judge seemed less bothered about which house Dr and dentist etc was registered to and more interested in how the 'load' was shared regarding these. She did ask my husbands ex quite challenging questions as to why she wouldn't allow him to take his child to them - her answer was a bit embarrassing really stuttering and mumbling about 'well I don't know what his schedule looks like with other commitments'... (NB - this isn't an issue when asking for him to have his child whilst she goes on holidays or weekend away). Seemed like the judge knew what her game was and wasn't pleased with her response but nonetheless the bullshit excuses didn't matter, who took him to the appt was what mattered.

£500 for shared care is really high when you have all your own costs to meet. Alls it does is take away from the future planning you could be doing with that money eg. Child savings to start them off, university etc

Is there a big discrepancy incomes?

Interestingly a NRP (Dad) the other day was querying why he was paying CMS when his ex wife earned a lot more than him. Responses were that it was irrelevant how much she earned, he was the NRP. It's always relevant when the NRP Dad is the higher earner. Maybe it shouldn't be so mutually exclusive.

I am going through this process now. I am also a solicitor but it’s such a unique process I am looking to see if anyone can guide me as to how to frame the application.