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Original poster

Prohibitive steps order against me! What next?

27 replies

Shoutinglagerlagerlager · 14/12/2022 20:31

Thanks for any advice you can give.

My ex has told me he has instructed a solicitor and informed “the authorities” that I don’t have his consent to travel on holiday abroad with our children. I assume this means he has applied for or been granted an emergency prohibitive steps order. How can I find out for sure (without a solicitor) and would I be notified officially?

I think I have good grounds to contest such an order. I was in the process of applying for a child arrangement order to formalise arrangements between us but unfortunately it is still pending with no date set as yet.

Help please!

OP posts:
MichelleScarn · 14/12/2022 20:34

What do you think he thinks the risk is? Are.you just going on hols or long trips to visit family?

MichelleScarn · 14/12/2022 20:39

Or is he just being an arse?!

wonderingwhatsnext · 14/12/2022 20:39

You would have been served notice by the court if the was a prohibitive steps application. Assuming you are the resident parent he is unlikely to be able to stop you taking them on holiday.

Soontobe60 · 14/12/2022 20:41

www.familylawdecisions.co.uk/useful-information/prohibited-steps-order/

There’s lots of info online about a PSO. From what you’ve said so far, he’s calling your bluff!

RandomMess · 14/12/2022 20:44

What are the arrangements of shared care?

If they reside with you/you are the main parent you don't need his permission for a holiday with the DC.

How likely is it that he is lying?

Original poster
Shoutinglagerlagerlager · 14/12/2022 21:30

Thank you all. Sorry my reply will be long to answer the questions:

We both have parental responsibility and no official agreement about child arrangements in place. He lives abroad and visits infrequently and without much prior notice. The last time he was here prior to now was over a year ago.

There are 2 children, one of whom has never lived with him since birth.

We planned to go on a 2 week holiday. He has said he objects because I didn’t ask his permission. Now he has turned up in the country out of the blue and told me the above.

I understand in law I require his permission so he has a point there. However he never told me he intended to come and see the children, or else I would not have planned to go away at the same time.

I’ve not heard anything from his solicitor or the courts, maybe I will soon. I don’t know what to do in the meantime. My application for child arrangement was to have it formally recognised that the children live with me, but it is still pending. I won’t attempt to travel obviously but I hate the thought that there is a court decision about me that I haven’t had the chance to comment on.

I can’t afford a solicitor so I’m stuck.

OP posts:
YetiTeri · 14/12/2022 21:37

Court orders have to be served so he doesn't have one against you. However you do need his permission to take the children abroad (which you know)so that's probably all he's talking about.

When is it? You may be able to get a specific issue order whilst you wait for the CAO to be organised.

RandomMess · 14/12/2022 21:37

So you are the parent with care, so you actually don't need his permission to take them away for 2 weeks.

YetiTeri · 14/12/2022 21:39

RandomMess · 14/12/2022 21:37

So you are the parent with care, so you actually don't need his permission to take them away for 2 weeks.

That's not true.

You have to have a CAO that specifically states the children reside with you for that to apply.

Allsnotwell · 14/12/2022 21:40

If you can’t afford it you may be able to get free advice - look it up in your area.

They judge won’t prevent you from traveling - they allow this based on confirmation of travel arrangements and return dates etc.

You should be served papers. Judges aren’t stupid and they know when someone is being an arse!

Original poster
Shoutinglagerlagerlager · 14/12/2022 21:45

The link shared above was very helpful.

I need his permission. I did not know this initially but once I did I applied for the child arrangement order.

I have not been served so maybe he is calling my bluff about that. I will have to wait for my child arrangement hearing then to iron this out.

It’s all so petty. I’ve never kept them from him. Hopefully the court will decide fairly for the children.

Thanks everyone

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 14/12/2022 22:55

It is possible to get an emergency order without notifying the other parent. The order would be temporary - a full hearing would be listed and the other parent would be notified of that hearing. However, even without a Prohibited Steps Order, OP cannot legally take the children out of the country without his consent (assuming he has PR). He may therefore have instructed a solicitor and informed the authorities without getting a PSO.

@Shoutinglagerlagerlager If there is a PSO, you will be notified. However, since he has made it clear that he does not consent to you taking the children abroad, you need to get a Specific Issue Order to allow you to take this holiday legally.

Original poster
Shoutinglagerlagerlager · 14/12/2022 23:15

Thank you @prh47bridge

From what you’ve said it sounds like there isn’t a PSO and he may just instructed a solicitor.

Unfortunately I won’t get a court date in time to go on this specific trip but hopefully once this goes to court I will get get an arrangement that allows me to do so in future.

I was a bit panicked but I’ve calmed down. If it turns out that an emergency order was granted I will have to wait for the full hearing to make my case.

What a mess!

OP posts:
Original poster
Shoutinglagerlagerlager · 14/12/2022 23:17

Sorry for the typos and the ridiculous username 😂 it was all I could think of when I changed it so as not to be outed.

OP posts:
Collaborate · 15/12/2022 10:08

If you have a prebooked holiday coming up you can notify the court that it is now urgent and ask for an earlier hearing date. The court is likely to permit you to go on holiday and is highly unlikely to expect you to cancel your plans just because he's turned up unannounced.

Original poster
Shoutinglagerlagerlager · 15/12/2022 10:57

@Collaborate

Thank you I will try that.

OP posts:
Original poster
Shoutinglagerlagerlager · 16/12/2022 18:11

Update:
After some thought I didn’t follow Collaborate’s advice. My children had not seen their father in over a year and even though they were looking forward to their holiday with me they would have found it very confusing and upsetting if I did not allow them time with him.

The police came to my home following his report. They asked about my travel plans and other details and then admitted it was all out of their jurisdiction and left because there was nothing much to note. Despite the police being very sensitive it was upsetting for both me and the children that their Dad would do this.

I am looking forward to the child arrangement hearing so this can all be sorted out formally. My question in the interim is, he is asking for the children’s passport details. Do I have to share these?

He lives in a non-Hague convention country to which they are entitled to passports. I have always applied for and kept possession of their UK passports. He’s being very insistent about having copies. I don’t want to get on the wrong side of the law before our case is heard.

OP posts:
AdoraBell · 16/12/2022 18:15

If he’s just doing it to control you then get your lawyer to do the same to him.

AdoraBell · 16/12/2022 18:20

Sorry, missed you saying you don’t have a lawyer. Could you borrow some mom from your family to see a lawyer?

HelsyQ · 16/12/2022 18:24

Do you have the same surname? Take them on holiday. He’s just trying to control you

InSummertime · 16/12/2022 18:25

Do not give him copies you can’t travel neither can he

Original poster
Shoutinglagerlagerlager · 16/12/2022 18:58

Thanks for your replies.

I feel uneasy about his request. I’m not giving the details for now. I hope it doesn’t count against me in court.

I think I do need a lawyer as this is all very overwhelming. I can’t afford one but I will have to try to find a way.

OP posts:
gottastopeatingchocolate · 16/12/2022 19:00

Hi - from your update I assume that you have decided to forego the holiday.

I would bring the communications from this exchange to the hearing for your CAO. As well as getting "lives with", which allows you to take the child/ren on holiday for up to 28 days without permission, you can also have specific instructions put into the CAO about passports. This would be especially important if they are entitled to non-Hague passports. You can have it in the order that you have those passports.

Original poster
Shoutinglagerlagerlager · 16/12/2022 19:38

Thanks @gottastopeatingchocolate I didn’t know that passport instructions could be added.

OP posts:
itsthefinalcountdown1 · 16/12/2022 19:48

I would be worried of giving him their passports - could he just take the children?

I'm sorry you're in this position OP. He makes no effort to see his children for a year and then demands you can't take them on holiday? He sounds awful and your kids are better off without him having responsibility for them. Good luck with the courts.