Police complaint process

[Lotsofgin]

Hello,
Can anyone help , I have another post but this is a separate question.

We have made a complaint against the police.
We went through iopc and they referred the complaint to the police force we are complaining about. They have done an internal investigation and found they have done nothing wrong ( big surprise).

My question is we have the right to review I understand we have 28days to do so.
But does anyone have experience of this process, is there ever another outcome or will they just come back with the same lies covering themselves.
Do we have any other options, can we go back to iops?.
Our complete is quite serious in nature and I can't believe they are able to just lie like they are and investigate themselves.
Thank you.

They can't lie and it has to open.
Have you gone through a solicitor?

They are lying, and denying any wrong doing, bar one alligation where they admit they will learn from their mistake.
We were able to see footage from one part of our complaint. It clearly shows what occurred, but they are still lying about it.
These officers need to be held accountable but they are being protected.
I wouldn't believe it if it wasn't happening to us.
We went through iopc, but the force in question carried out the investigation and found nothing wrong

I would go through a solicitor in that case.
There are loads who will fight your corner and are happy to take on the police.

Yes, the outcome could be overturned. You will have been given a right of review to either the IOPC or your local Police and Crime Commissioner/Mayor depending on the severity of your original complaint.

The reviewing body will consider whether your complaint has been answered properly and whether the investigation has been reasonable and proportionate. They will make sure each point of your complaint has been addressed.

If something isn't right or if they disagree with the outcome they can send it back for reinvestigation or even consider investigating themselves.

You can find more info at police www.conduct.gov.uk.

I do this for a living so if you need anything further, drop me a pm.

@Felix125 a solicitor is no use really until you have exhausted your right of review. If you have done that then a solicitor can assist you in a judicial review.

Before that a solicitor can make the complaint on your behalf but has no more power or sway than the complainant themselves. People sometimes think the complaint will be taken more seriously if its sent by a solicitor but in reality it doesn't matter. It's all governed by the Police Reform Act 2002 and we rely heavily on the IOPC's Statutory Guidance for Police Complaints, neither give any extra strength to complaints via solicitors.

What on earth do you mean they can’t lie? They lie all the time! My ex got two sacked after they stole 4k of his money out of a safe in his mothers bedroom. There was 10k in there legitimately earned that be was saving towards a house deposit. They got a false ‘tip’ off out of spite that he was a drug dealer and they took the 10k, when he proved it was genuine earnings he went to collect it and they tried to tell him they had only taken 6k. It was pure luck that this was all filmed by a camera crew for one of those police programs. He got a solicitor who managed to get the footage by court order and proved the amount and that they stole the money.
Good luck op, you’ll need it.

What I mean is, the investigating body can't lie. Everything will have to be open and they will report back to you for each point that you are contesting. They will have an answer for the points you raise.

As Ambergrain has said, you can start the process yourself or if you feel unable to start this off, speak with a solicitor

@Ambergrain thank you , that's given me some hope. I'm sure they do it in the hope you give up, it's already a traumatic experience and I'm all out of fight.
We have been given a review/ appeal form and have until the 4th January.
On the form it asks for the reasons why we want to appeal/ review, for example

*Unhappy with the way the case was recorded and handled
*The way it was investigated
*The final outcome
How much detail is required in this, do we have to go through every alligation again ( there are many)and explain what we are unhappy with, what is incorrect ect.
Or will a short summary do?
Are they going to investigate again from the beginning of do we include our initial complaint again.

It asks for any other relevant information and the final report from the police force.
Is it worth attaching all email correspondence from the 3 inspectors that investigated it or will they have access to these anyway.

I apologize for the number of what are probably very stupid questions but the whole thing seems never ending

I think you will need to put down each complaint and the reasons why you are not happy. Perhaps a summary at the start may make it easy to follow where the complaints are.

i would attach the emails you received too

I agree with @Felix125 , give as much info as you can including copy documents.
For example, if you think they should have made additional enquiries or got accounts from certain people and didn't, this would be relevant.

If you think they have come to the wrong outcome, look carefully at their rationale and the reasons they have come to their conclusions. The outcome will be assessed based on the balance of probabilities rather than beyond all reasonable doubt.

They should also include whether there should be any learning for either the force or the officers concerned.

Unless the IOPC takes it as an independent investigation it may not be investigated fully again. Firstly, you need your review request to be upheld (which means they disagree with the force). If they do uphold it they may not uphold it all, just sections of it. If that's the case it may be that only the upheld sections are reinvestigated.

The more you can give the review body the more in depth they can consider your views so give them as much info as you can.

Thank you both.. this is going to take a long time. Do you know if we can request an extension to the 28days?.
One of the inspectors is seemingly refusing to send us their report despite numerous requests and the knowledge that she has completed it, but the police force have still sent us a final response.
The other two investigating other allegations both sent their response to us so we could ask further questions and correct any mistakes( of which there were many)
I don't understand how that's possible as we should have been able to review their response and then ask for further investigations/ other questions.
For this reason do you think we could ask for longer?.

The whole thing is a farce, they are still lying about one alligation despite us seeing footage of it.
And the one I really want to get the disgusting officers disciplined for they have deleted the body cam footage so it's our word against theirs. The inspector literally said her officers wouldn't do that and that it was the paramedics.
She didn't even contact the paramedics to hear their side.
We have since contacted the health board stating what the police are saying and asking for clarification.
Hopefully we will have their answers by the 4th January so we can send that in too

You could document the fact that you have requested numerous times from the inspector but have had no response at the time you have completed your report.

The people investigating your complaint should chase this up

Okay, a few things here.

If the inspector is dealing with your complaint as a formal complaint you are entitled to a copy of the report under the PRA 2002 and they cannot refuse.

Once an investigator is appointed (which sounds like the insp in this case) it is them who sets the terms of reference and decides what enquiries should be made. You will not be usually allowed to guide the investigation and it is for the investigator to decide what us reasonable and proportionate. If at the end of the investigation you don't think it has been r&p then this is something to raise in a review.

The reason you can't guide the investigation is that members of the public regularly expect huge investigations into minor matters which isn't realistic so there are rules which prevent that. I'm not saying yours is a minor matter, but that's why you haven't had the opportunity to review their investigation before the final report came out.

If the report they won't send you is actually an account by one of the people you are complaining about requested during the investigation, the force don't need to send it, just include details on their response to you. You may still be able to get a copy via a subject access request though.

You will need to ask your review body for an extension, they will normally permit it but not indefinitely so aim for a week or two.

In every force I know, body cam courage cannot be deleted by the user. The camera records and then the camera is docked and automatically uploads to the network. Each force will have different retention periods before it automatically deletes if its not considered evidential. Ours is 60 days.

I have recent experience of going through the complaints process. In 2020 at the height of lockdown, my husband was arrested in handcuffs for theft of an A4 paper sign placed on a bank of land between ourselves and our neighbour from hell. He was taken from our home and place of work by a corrupt officer and placed in a cell for 8 hours, he is asthmatic and diabetic and was shielding. Following this he was left under investigation for months during which he had a breakdown. Eventually there was "no further action as not in the public interest"
I went through the complaints process with help from CAB. It was a complete farce, we were allocated an investigator, and long story short it resulted in lies and a total whitewash of a report back. I went through the whole process, IOPC too, no joy at all. It was pretty devestating and we still feel angry and bitter about it, it's true they do close ranks, lie and cover for each other and our faith in policing is destroyed. We do have the arrest on CCTV with audio as it took place in our office and we are considering sharing it on social media.

Our complaint is quite complex as there were so many failings, so there were 3 inspectors investigating separate allegations.
Two reported their findings in a report form , and we were given the opportunity to add to/ ask further questions and correct their many mistakes.
The third is still yet to send it despite us asking numerous times and the complaints manager telling her to.
I'm hoping this will go in our favour at the next stage.

I will contact them tomorrow and see if we can get an extension.
Would be helpful as then we could have the paremedics response.

Yes the body cam footage is deleted after 28 days if it's not part of an investigation apparently.
But still seems extremely convenient given what it had recorded.
Unfortunately we were in no state of mind to do anything about it within 28days.
@Ambergrain do you mind me asking what you do, and if I can still pm you, I don't want to put too many details on a public forum

@strawberryshortcake1 I'm sorry you had a horrible experience too.
I understand what you mean, if this hadn't happened to us I wouldn't believe it.
I've also considered going to the media, after the recent media attention the police have received about their treatment of women I thought our complaint would have been treated with more seriousness

I have read this thread with some interest, and must say of the responses to the police integrity are bordering on the nieve, and I suggest born out of a hope that the police operate in a fair and reasonable manner. I would ask that you consider the following which is a record of a real life process in the police complaints procedure.
Complaints against the Police is a Worthless Exercise for the General Public.

For those that find themselves in the unenviable position of having to raise a complaint against the police, whether this be for inadequate policing, racial bias or just the attempts of the police to brush a crime under the carpet, any form of redress is an absolute waste of time and effort. I speak as someone who has unfortunately fallen foul of these services while attempting to help a victim of crime.

The police complaints procedure, IS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE. All complaints are undertaken by the force in question’s Professional Standards Department, which forms part of and is funded by that police authority and pays the salaries of those employees. Any/All reviews are tantamount to marking their own homework, no fact checking or truth analysis takes place it’s just a paper exercise and tick box collection ensuring those complained about have filled in the right forms and followed the laid out scripts, which obviously they have because they are coached in that aspect of policing, to avoid redress.
In support of my assertion, on obtaining a Freedom of Information request it was stated, from the forces own data, that 93% of all complaints raised never even get to the review stage, they are dismissed and any/all violations are swept under the carpet by the Professional Standards Department. Should you request the Police and Crime Commissioner or Chief Constable to review this matter then you will be placed in the internal loop, not their responsibility, obviously hoping that the complainant gets cheesed off and discontinues any form of complaint. It works because most people get so exasperated by these procedures that they drop proceedings out of shear exhaustion with the process.

The police complaints process should be scraped and an ‘independent’ body tasked with undertaking all complaint reviews without bias or favour. Is it any wonder faith and respect for the police has fallen dramatically as the general public is not treated in a fair and even handed manner, this allows police authorities to act as a law unto themselves whilst allowing criminals to get off scot-free.