Nana’s possessions (including home) disposed of by deceased husband’s relative whilst Nana in care home with dementia

[Pigeonhawk]

Hi there. First time posting but hoping I could get some advice. Background: my nana died in 2018 after being in a care home with dementia for 9 years. In her 70s she got married to a man who was not pleasant and tried for many years to cause a wedge between nana and her family the point where my mum didn’t see her for a few years until she found out Nana was in a care home with dementia.

Mum was able to visit but by this point Nana didn’t know who she was. The carehome were very good in keeping mum informed of nana’s progress as she visited at different times to the husband, who was not happy she could visit but couldn’t prevent it.

Consequently they advised mum when the husband died - nana was still alive at this point. We then found out that a distant relative of the husband (we think a granddaughter of a previous wife) had disposed of the home they had shared, and whatever possessions still remained.

We assume that he must have left the property to the relative in his will, but what is unclear is how they were able to dispose of anything of nana’s whilst she was still alive, but incapacitated.

Nana died a few months later but we never found her will - she had previously told Mum that she had written one and at which solicitors it was stored but they couldn’t find it.

So my questions are

1. were they legally allowed to dispose of nana’s possession whilst she was still alive (but with dementia)
2. how do we find out if nana had a will?

Sorry it’s long thanks for bearing with me and appreciate any advice

1. If they had Power of Attorney for her financial affairs, yes, they could dispose of her property and possessions. However, they should have acted in her best interests. At the very least, they should have sold her property and any possessions that had any value, and the proceeds of the sale should have been used for her benefit (e.g. to pay care home fees). Anything left over should have gone into her estate to be distributed in accordance with her will or the intestacy rules if there is no will. If this relative was given the property or paid substantially under its market value, that was illegal.
2. There is no way to find out for certain. You can ask all the local solicitors if they know anything. If that fails to turn up a will, the chances are that any will she did make has been lost or destroyed.

As PP says Power of attorney would grant the relative the legal authority to take those actions whilst your ban was alive. You can view POAs here and report concerns about them. www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-public-guardian

In England all wills and private can be found here www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

There are links in it if you are in Scotland or NI who have different arrangements.

The link gives all wills for which probate has been granted. The husband's will is likely to be there unless probate wasn't needed. As Nana's will has not been found by her relatives, it is highly unlikely it is there.

Did the house come from the husband's side of the family, and he owned it before he married your grandmother?

If so even though upon his death it will have been inherited by your grandmother, morally it seems right that it was sold for the benefit of his children and grandchildren.

The only way to find out if someone had a will is to speak to any solicitor/law firm, neighbour, trusted friend or relative that they might have left it with.

There is no national database/record where wills are lodged before (or unless) probate has been granted. There is no national database/record where wills are lodged.

But if it never existed or can't be found, then the person will be classed as having died intestate, i.e. without a will.

If your nana had been in a home for nine years did she actually have many possessions left at the husband's house? Could the husband's relative have assumed that everything in the house belonged to the husband and therefore part of his estate? Are there particular items of value that belonged to your nana that are now missing?

Actually LPA requires you to act in best interest of peron who has donated attorney. You can't unilaterally decide to sell off possessions and home unless to pay for care fees or to make a carefully planned financial management plan to increase available funds.
Finding a will might be a bit hard. If you knew who her usual solicitor was, you can ask. After a death nothing much can be done with the estate until probate is granted.

If a relative (with or without attorney), has sold off a property or disposed of parts of an estate for their own benefit (it would be hard to so do without a written authority, as most solicitors doing any conveyancing would ask the questions about ownership) then it has potential to be financial abuse and needs reporting to the police.

Thank you for the responses. Regarding the The property it was a static caravan type in a residential park, there was no mortgage but was bought jointly when Nana was still in sound mind. We used to visit when relations were ok between mum and her husband.

When we found the husband had died Mum approached the site manager about the property and was told that it had been sold, and the 'deeds' could be passed by the owner writing a letter giving ownership to someone else . We assume this is what the husband did as this distant grandchild sold the mobile home.

We don't know if PoA was in place, but her fees were being paid.

It has been a few years now but it rankles that she was in a home with dementia and all her possessions were sold and mum never got anything to remember her by.

This is definitely not right. The husband died so anything he hadn’t specifically willed to someone else would have gone to your Nana. It sounds like she owned half of the caravan plus she definitely owned her own personal possessions, plus any of her husbands possessions that he had not willed to someone else.

A theft has taken place and I would get solicitor and possibly even police involved, because your Nana has been robbed by this individual. You need to find her husbands will and see exactly what it says. Then take legal action.

It seems unlikely there is value in paying legal fees here. It is very sad that any sentimental photos etc are now long gone. Sorry.

I totally disagree. The courts could order the relative to pay OP half the value of the caravan. Possibly the full value depending on circumstances. That could be a lot of money.

It did seem to be dodgy at the time, but mum was just relieved she didn't have to deal with him anymore so didn't pursue, plus my dad was ill so she had a lot on and just let it go.

We don't really have a lot of information, I couldn't find the the husband's will online from the useful link posted above. She definitely remembers having a conversation with Nana about her will, but as mentioned the solicitors couldn't find it. I will speak with mum to see what else she remembers.

He really was a piece of work, when they got married none of his children from previous marriages were in attendance, only all of nana's side. Over the years we could see why no one wanted to have anything to do with him. He fell out with everyone he dealt with, would go into rages over small things, had to be right all the time. The reason tge y fell out was because mum stood up to him one day. The carehome were so supportive of my mum because they saw what he was like. She would visit at different times to avoid him. Maybe he got nana to change her will while confused, we just don't know.

"I totally disagree. The courts could order the relative to pay OP half the value of the caravan. Possibly the full value depending on circumstances. That could be a lot of money."

I'm not sure how to get anything started. We don't have a name of the person who sold the caravan, this info was passed on by the carehome because she apparently worked there, and so it was coincidence the husband and this girl met. It's honestly just the most bizarre thing.

Presumably if the husband didn't name his wife (Nana) in his will she wouldn't be a beneficiary?

If they owned the caravan jointly, she would have owned half of it regardless of what it said in his will. However, if it was in his sole name, he could do what he wanted with it regardless of any financial contribution she made.

The caravan was sold by a woman who worked at the care home? Ok now this does sound like criminal behaviour took place! I’d contact a solicitor.

We don't have a name of the person who sold the caravan, this info was passed on by the carehome because she apparently worked there

I am confused by this. The site said that ownership of the caravan could be changed by the owner writing a letter passing it to someone else. So how could a random person who worked at the care home sell it? Did she arrange the sale? Or did the husband sell it to her first?

To repeat what I have said above, if the caravan was in his sole name, he could do whatever he wanted with it - sell it to someone, give it away or leave it to someone in his will. That is not criminal behaviour. Do you know if the caravan was in his name or in joint names? The site owner should be able to answer that question.

We don't have a name of the person who sold the caravan, this info was passed on by the carehome because she apparently worked there

Was this person who sold the caravan a relative of her husband who also happened to work for the care home? This definitely doesn’t sound right at all.

Yes, apparently the person who worked at the carehome was the grand daughter of a previous wife. I don't think they had had any contact for many years, we never met any of his side. So she became more friendly with the husband once they realised this connection

In summary

• Nana in care home with dementia
• husband died before her
• distant relative who by chance worked at carehome reconnected with husband before his death
• distant relative sold property

Sorry posted too early

• sold property and all possessions (we presume as nothing came nana's way)

My questions were whether we had any legal standing, these were answered upthread about power of attorney, so I'm going to check that route next.

I realise there may have not been anything of hers remaining, but it seems like an injustice and it just bugs me.

As well as checking power of attorney, you need to check who owned the caravan. If it was entirely in the husband's name, he was entitled to do whatever he wanted with it regardless of any contribution your nana may have made towards the purchase price.

He was probably scammed by someone pretending to be his granddaughter.

Yes, more information needed regarding ownership of mobile home.

I can see there is more investigation needed regarding PofA and ownership of property at time of death. If I get some answers I can then consider whether it is worth pursuing as a legal and/or criminal case.

Thank you everyone

If they were married wouldn’t the caravan be a martial asset and jointly owned through marriage?

Not sure on the legalities but if it was a house I think that’s the case.

No, that is not the case. It would be treated as a marital asset in divorce, but for all other purposes it would not be jointly owned regardless of whether it was a house, a static caravan or any other type of property.