Tenants requesting a court order!

[Emily2586]

Hi everyone,

I would really be grateful for some advice. I have a property in England which I would like to move back to. I have given the notice on time and gave my tenants 3 months to find alternative accommodation. The three months have now passed and the tenants have come back to me saying they can not find any place to rent because of their low income and is saying they would like me to start a court order so they could give a letter to the council so that they could assist them.

I wasn't expecting them to do this as I had given three months notice and I had some to them if this wasn't enough time they could let me know and it could be extended slightly to give them time to find something. I was under the impression they were finding a place to rent all this time.

The tenants have been in the property for 10 years and I have no experience of about the legal proceedings in this case. I myself have kids and need to move into this property as I am currently staying with my parents until the tenants move out and I am worried that court proceedings could cost a lot.

Could someone please kindly give any advice of what I could do.

There won’t be any tenancy agreement. I’d put money on it

No tenancy agreement
No LL insurance
No but to let mortgage ie bank completely unaware tenanted
No Gas and Electrical safety check

and a property on need of “major repairs”

S21 and you almost certainly will have to get solicitors involved and follow Possession Order etc.

Try to find a good high street solicitor in UK who are good at dealing with these cases, don't use a cheap option as they more than likely will take longer. You need someone who knows what they're doing, paralegal might be able to handle it but I'd get a proper solicitor. Read reviews on their website or Google reviews. Ensure they're SRA.

Even then expect it to take forever to progress (can you tell I used to work for solicitors?!), you will need to be on their cases a lot to ensure it proceeds and just have patience. It could easily take up to a year or more to progress this too. No fast fix.

Landlord insurance, I am staggered someone didn't have this.

I feel slightly sorry for you OP as you haven't raised the rent, but it seems like you haven't kept up to date with boiler etc being current/replaced.

I think the parents may actually own the property, and OP and her sister were just managing it for them. Which may mean the section 21 etc is invalid, if it's not done in the right names. But this is one of the things solicitors will be able to help OP with.

shocking, really horrifying if this is the case.

It’s little wonder that LL’s want out of the rental market.

Oh, and I don't think raising the rent is the easy solution some are making it out to be- tenants can challenge a Section 13 via tribunal, and don't need to pay the increased amount until the tribunal makes a decision. If they are just trying to hold out until they get a possession notice to take to the council etc, it's possible/probable they will never have to pay the increased rent.

But this was obviously an option during the tenancy, so the fact that OP says the tenants refused rent increases suggests either she doesn't have a clue or actually, given the state of repair of the property etc, the tenants are paying a fair rate of rent.

OP needs her property back for her own family and gave plenty of notice. I hate how councils are happy to shit all over good landlords and their finances by allowing these things to drag on like this at such great costs to landlords.

If councils were permitted the resources to build/acquire sufficient properties to meet housing needs, there would be very little need for private landlords at all. You can't blame councils for the scarcity of housing caused by repeated governments failing to take steps to address the housing crisis.

Because housing is so scarce, they have to take steps to ensure that those who get social housing are those in most need, which is why they won't help until there is evidence that the legal process required to evict tenants has been started.

Tbf, if it causes house prices to go down and gets rid of rogue landlords who don't follow the law, for a lot of tenants, that's no bad thing.

Section 21 evictions can cause a lot of housing insecurity for people- can you imagine trying to plan your life, when you might have to move every six months?

Going to court is awful for tenants too - they get at least 1 CCJ, which tanks their credit score and scuppers any chance of private rent again.

15 years ago, I was given a S21, at the worst possible time. I had a newborn (6 weeks old) a toddler and ExH had left me the week before for OW.

I worked from 8pm - midnight in a call centre, 6 days a week, around his extremely long work hours. I was on Mat leave, I had no idea how I’d continue working those hours without a husband at home.

I went to the council for advice the next day, with all the paperwork. I sure as shit wasn’t expecting them to house me, I had no desire to live on a council estate again (I grew up on one). However, they put me on their list and were very helpful and within 2 weeks I was offered a house. Fortunately, the day before, I’d managed to find a new private rental.

I was given a S21 again last year. This time, the council were horrific. Patronising, dismissive and actually really nasty at times. Didn’t do their jobs properly - to the extent I got my MP involved and she was furious when she looked into all the errors they’d made.

I didn’t find a house within 2 weeks of being served this time. Or 2 months. In fact, it took me 7 months to find somewhere, whilst being harassed by my landlord, the police were involved.

Meanwhile, the council told me we would put in hotels, anywhere in the county, with no regard for how I’d get to work or get my kids to school, no thought as to how I’d manage to feed them, no regard for my disabled child’s needs, and that the hotel would be changed every day and this would go on for a minimum of 6 months.

And for fucks sake, I’m in a small city in the Midlands. So I dread to think how bad it is elsewhere.

Again, I didn’t want a council house. But as a single parent, despite a high income, good credit and a homeowner, high earning Guarantor, I only managed to get three viewings in that time.

The house I’m in now, I didn’t even view it. I got a call from an old friend who’s sibling owns the house, offering it to me. It’s two counties over from where we lived before, so I’ve had to get a new job, my kids have had to move schools.

speculating like this is driving the OP away from the thread which would ultimately help Tenants because then the person might take on board the advice and rectify the scenario.

and yes I completely agree probably none of this is in place and I doubt they’ve paid a penny tax on it either, it is a shambles. But it’s not an insurmountable one. And it can all be on packed and rectified retrospectively.

And what do you think the bank will do when they discover that for 10 years the owner have been ignoring one of the most material conditions of the loan… the basis up on which the contract is formed ie whether a buy to let or homeowner mortgage! The amount of interest they will want to claw back will be huge plus they will be blacklisted for future mortgage.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg

@NukaColaQuantum nobody gets a CCJ unless they dont pay the rent so providing they follow the advice that the council will give them to keep paying their rent they will not end up with actually any record of the eviction that would prevent them from renting somewhere else.

They can get costs awarded against them though, The intentional homeless card doesn’t really stack up if the tenant has children and if they dont the council wont be housing them anyway.

@Razzle5 you’re assuming theres a mortgage. The impression I was given, there wasn’t.

The property's actually ownership is also very murky.

OP says that original the house and tenants were her sister's- But then the parents "took the house back" because the mortgage was unpaid. So were the parents the legal owner? Then OP says that the parents gave her the house 4 years ago

So it seems really unclear

• who owns the house legally? the parents? OP? the sister?
• whose name is on the mortgage?
• was the tenancy updated to take account of changes in ownership?
• whose name is on the mortgage?
• is it a proper BTL mortgage or was it a residential mortgage?

Then there is also all the landlord legal issues that need to be clarified - deposit protection, gas and electricity certificates, smoke and carbon dioxide detectors. Also issues of the major repairs.

OP you seem out of your depth with being a landlord and you need to consult an expert

The mortgage on the property has not been fully paid off, what I meant was I used the rent money to pay off the monthly mortgage payments on the house.

From the OP. There is a mortgage.

It sounds as if you are seriously lacking in understanding exactly what you should have been doing for them as landlords for 10 years.

Have you done an annual inspection? A yearly EPC? Gas boiler service (if there is one)? I'll also bet there is no current signed lease.

As for not having their deposit in a protection scheme, I'm pretty sure this is illegal. Either you or your parents should have been more in control of all aspects of this.

And yes:

They need to be made homeless before the council will find them accommodation. So get off your arse and get that letter sent to them tomorrow so they can apply for housing.

If you were happy for them to be paying rent for living in a place that needs 'major repairs' you should be ashamed of yourself.

1, Pay £3 and do a Land Registry search of the ownership. 2. The owner is probably the landlord - read the tenancy agreement (if any). 3. The owner evicts the tenants. 4. You do not have to use a solicitor so can do it yourself. Just look up what needs to be done and pay the court fees. www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants

OP says that there was a mortgage on the property

Emily2586 · Today 07:11 ... The mortgage on the property has not been fully paid off, what I meant was I used the rent money to pay off the monthly mortgage payments on the house.

The deposit should be in a deposit scheme or you're f*cked. Sorry to be so blunt

So get off your arse and get that letter sent to them tomorrow so they can apply for housing.

The council will usually mean a possession order from a court. There is no point in OP going to court unless she is sure the Section 21 is correct.

.

OP said on page one she has already issued the Section 21. Only she will know if it's correct...

Hopefully, if nothing else, this thread will serve as a warning to any prospective landlords reading this- it's not always as simple as you think it's going to be, and it's important to do things by the book!

OP said on page one she has already issued the Section 21. Only she will know if it's correct...

they also said their ‘sister didn’t give them the deposit’ so they’ve been ‘putting some aside’ to cover it. That sounds very much like it isn’t protected, so the section 21 is invalid

That might be your impression

but it’s wrong as Op specifically clarified the mortgage is categorically not paid off