Tenants requesting a court order!

[Emily2586]

Hi everyone,

I would really be grateful for some advice. I have a property in England which I would like to move back to. I have given the notice on time and gave my tenants 3 months to find alternative accommodation. The three months have now passed and the tenants have come back to me saying they can not find any place to rent because of their low income and is saying they would like me to start a court order so they could give a letter to the council so that they could assist them.

I wasn't expecting them to do this as I had given three months notice and I had some to them if this wasn't enough time they could let me know and it could be extended slightly to give them time to find something. I was under the impression they were finding a place to rent all this time.

The tenants have been in the property for 10 years and I have no experience of about the legal proceedings in this case. I myself have kids and need to move into this property as I am currently staying with my parents until the tenants move out and I am worried that court proceedings could cost a lot.

Could someone please kindly give any advice of what I could do.

OP - Mumsnet is not the place to put landlord questions. You will not get a decent answer. I recommend talking to a solicitor straight away and resolve the anomalies like contracts, deposit, rent rate etc.

thats actually very unfair on the very comprehensive replies that have been given. There is useful information on this thread for the op to check out

For example have they done the forms to change the landlord from her sister to herself, have they got certain certificates, have they got the deeds for the house in the ops name.

Along with different decent organisations to turn to for help and advice to seek a solicitor

I would imagine OP has a wealth of homework to sift through on this and will not return to the thread

as for calling legal requirements anomalies, thats a bit far fetched

Unfortunately your kindness and feeling sorry for your tenants has now caused you tremendous problems. No good deed goes unpunished.

by not raising their rent in line with housing market in the area, just paying the mortgage, had now left you open to not having any funds for legal advice to evict them and as you can now see, they don’t really care it is causing you problems when you now need a place to live yourself with your children.

also sadly on here there are so many people who hear “landlord” and think you’re rolling in money when clearly that is not the case.

please be sure you have followed everything you need to as a landlord do your kindness does not further bite you. You very seriously need advice. Much has happened in the last 10 years regarding landlord obligations that can cause you a lot of money if you have not kept up.

Sorry but it sounds like you don’t have a clue what you’re doing. The deposit also sounds as if it hasn’t been held the way it should have been.

You’re asking for advice from random strangers on the internet but you really need to contact a solicitor

unfortunately your kindness

I am guessing you missed the part where the op said the property the tenants have been residing in requires “major repairs”?

@LoveAutumnColours

I hate how councils are happy to shit all over good landlords and their finances by allowing these things to drag on like this at such great costs to landlords. And ftr, no, I'm not a landlord. I have rented plenty of properties in the past, from both good and bad landlords. And I don't think this is right.

and how would you make sure that someone was really homeless or not? Would you be happy for a real homeless family to stay homeless whilst someone who wasn't got a council property instead?

The solicitor will uncover the op has been failing in her legal duties, namely regarding annual electrical and gas safety checks

@ivykaty44 our local council would consider you homeless once the section 21 has been validated all the councils that are probably snowed under have a different criteria.

@Razzle5 5 years for the electrical safety check.
However landlord insurance apeci

Yes, there are shitty landlords. But there are also good ones. And this is awful for people in the OP's position

Which is what? Haven’t protected the deposit, doesn’t even have all of it set aside, has left it in need of major repair and doesn’t know the most basic legal obligations of a LL. he/she won’t be able to issue notice with an unprotected deposit.

Ah you're a "scum" landlord... "house needs major repairs". Happy to take rent off them, then turf them out, which will cost them thousands, and YOU'RE the one crying about it?

Specifically mention it and failure to have it will invalidate insurance.

I am LL this is what you should do. Always issue pack when tenant moves in. Gas certificate every 12 months. Never let this expire so book new one 2 weeks before old one expires. Also get boiler serviced each year at se time. Electricity certificate every 5 years for btl house. Print off EPC certificate from government website. It must be above G. Soon to be C. Btl LL need new one every 5 years. Book in 2 weeks before expires. Smoke alarms on each floor. Take photos of these and get tenants to sign and date, printed photo. Best to use alarms wired I to electrics with 10 year sealed battery back up and change after about 8 years. Carbon Monoxide detector next to boiler. Take photo of CM next to boiler and print out get tenants to sign and date. Photograph each room empty before after deep clean before tenants move in including open oven so show it is clean. Get tenants to sign each printed photo with lease. Print out How to Rent booked. Make sure itinerary is up to date. Get this witnessed by independent person as tenants move in. I put all this in pack for new tenants and also take them copy of deposit lodged within 7 days of them moving in but they will also get copy emailed to them from deposit scheme. I get tenants to sign a piece of paper stating house has 2 smoke alarms, one on each floor, CM detector your next to cooker, gas cert, electricity certificate, EPC, How to Rent booklet, images of house including clean oven, images of gardens front and back. I file this with lease and invoice an DC copy of deposit having been lodged, invoice from cleaning company who did deep clean. As a LL I protect myself and consequently have had no disputes. Happy tenants and happy LL. It is a business and should be treated professionally. I have found my tenants stay a lot of years, longest was 12 years. Also make sure tenants put utilities and council tax in their names on day they move in so you won't be liable if they default. Read meters for gas and electricity on day they move in and take photo of them next to meter. Water too if metered.

The OP has done nothing wrong. This anti-landlord stance gets tiresome.

Do you think failing to do repairs and not protecting the deposit as the law requires is ok, then, @ZeldaWillTellYourFortune ?

And the silence on the point of safety certificates, smoke alarms etc speaks volumes.

@caringcarer you sound like a very professional LL who takes their responsibilities seriously.

Yes but presuming never been one in ten years…. Annually the OP has been failing in her legal duty.

landlord insurance? Not a chance in hell that this op has bothered with landlord insurance when she hasn’t done the “major repairs” needed

OP, I hope you've got the message that you need legal advice.

But just to give you some idea of timescales-

As soon as the Section 21 ends, you can apply to a court for a possession order. You will be given a court date, which will be a minimum of 4 weeks away, but in reality, in most areas of the country, you will have to wait for at least a few months.

If the Section 21 is not valid, then you will not get a possession order. You can use the guidance here to check if the Section 21 you have issued is valid: england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/section_21_eviction/how_to_check_a_section_21_notice_is_valid

Because they've been in the property for so long, some of the things people are saying may not apply- such as the guidance about deposits, gas safety etc. But you do need to find out what is going on with the deposit, as you may need to either protect it or return it to your tenants.

If the Section 21 is not valid, then there's no point going after a possession order. But let's assume it is.

If you get a possession order, a date for possession will be given. This is usually 2 weeks after the court date, but if your tenants are in hardship, it could be as long as 6 weeks away. Tenants can also appeal the possession order if they think a mistake was made (e.g. the judge said the Section 21 was valid, when it's not).

The date on the possession order is still not the date the tenants will have to leave. If the tenants don't leave by this date, then you can apply for bailiffs to evict them. The bailiffs will give about 2 weeks notice of the eviction date to the tenants. Do be aware that at this stage, the tenants have nothing to lose so may cause damage to the property or sell your goods etc.

Anyway, the absolute minimum time you would have to wait is eight weeks from the end of the Section 21- but realistically, based on court dates, availability of bailiffs, if the tenants can prove hardship, it could end up being more like 6 months. If you've got the section 21 wrong, then you need to sort the issues, reissue it, wait the two months, and then start the process, so at least 4 months, but again probably a lot longer.

I'm not commenting on the rights/wrongs here, just trying to explain the legal process.

BTW, if the Section 21 has already run out, then you have 4 months to apply for the possession order, or you have to start again.

The only place where the financial situation of the tenants matters is whether they can prove hardship or not, and delay the process for a further 4 weeks. If you have not followed the law, and filled in all the paperwork correctly, it will cause significant delays.

i shudder to imagine the condition of this home from a safety and legal perspective

You’re absolutely right but unfortunately that’s the OP’s fault. I assume she didn’t do things the correct way and just thought the tenants would leave because of the three months notice.

Welp! Things have come back to bite you on the bum so you either get what the tenants need (you have to go through the courts anyway so you’ll surely need a solicitor either way no?) or you contact a solicitor, tell them how dodgy you’ve been so they can realistically let you know what happens next

You should always have landlord insurance, this will cost you a lot of money.

Oh I regard the op very much at fault. In every respect actually. And pleading ignorance is in itself a failing

Oh, BTW, OP- you do need to be careful that you are not seen to be harassing your tenants or trying to evict them illegally (illegal evictions include evictions via an invalid Section 21) as this is a criminal offence.

In terms of money, you can claim the cost of an eviction hearing and bailiffs from the tenants, but again only if the Section 21 is valid etc. You really need to ensure that the Section 21 is legal before you do anything further.

If the property is owned by the sister, surely the sister is the landlord?

I can't see how you can legally rent a property you don't own.

Oh, BTW, OP- you do need to be careful that you are not seen to be harassing your tenants or trying to evict them illegally (illegal evictions include evictions via an invalid Section 21) as this is a criminal offence.

Yes. Important not to keep contacting them to leave etc part of our compensation was for harassment and that included the fact she badgered us about the illegal section 21, giving her son keys he used while we were inside, and trying to do inventory during our move day.

You have no choice and they have no choice. You've been a good landlord and they've been good tenants. Check with a solicitor how you can do this. It is allowable as you want to live in your own house, but I think it will still need a court order.

I can't see how you can legally rent a property you don't own. it could be that both the sister and OP managed it? By it sounds like parents have transferred ownership now to OP. Although OP hasn’t really clarified about ownership.