NHS annual leave entitlement

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Hi all
I haven't worked in NHS for long so I don't know the history behind Agenda for Change. But I understand that it was the reason why the A/L entitlement is 27 days plus 8 BHs.
I wondered if anyone knew how this can still be acceptable when the statutory A/L in England is 28 days (which can include BHs), and when NHS Wales has increased theirs to 28 days?

Thank you

I thought the legal min was 20? Could be wrong and too lazy to Google what

The 28 days includes bank Holidays, so minimum 20 days, plus 8 days of BH per year.

I know nothing about the NHS, but as 27+8 is well above the statutory entitlement, as you yourself have acknowledged in your post, I don't really understand your question.

as above, don’t understand your question

So typically an NHS worker gets 7 more days annual leave than a private sector worker would usually receive.

Not sure I understand your question. Are you angry that NHS staff get more leave?

The statutory minimum is 28 days. You have 35 days. 35 is more than 28.

But OP presumably realises this already, as she has acknowledged in her post that the 28 statutory days can include bank holidays. That's why I can't really understand the question.

It's quite clear, to me, that OP thought the statutory 28 days AL was exclusive of bank hols, whereas it is in fact inclusive.
So OP thinks the NHS's 27+BHs is less than statutory

Also to pp not all private sector employees get only the statutory minimum, that's a very odd and very wrong assumption. Just like not all private sector employees get national minimum wage

Yes, I would have thought that, but she explicitly says in her post that the statutory 28 days can include bank holidays, hence my confusion.

And yes, absolutely agree that lots of private sector employers offer more than the statutory minimum.

What's the issue?
27+8 = 35 days which is above the statutory minimum of 28 days

Ok I didn't explain myself very well!

Statutory A/L entitlement is 28 days in England. Employers can include the 8 days bank hol if they choose (ie 20 days + 8) or they can add the 8 on top (ie 36 days total) Either way it must be specified in your contract.

The NHS currently allows 27 days plus 8 BH (total 35). I have been told by a colleague that this came about as a result of Agenda for Change (2004?) but that might be incorrect info.

The NHS entitlement is obviously less than some other industries who offer 28+8, and more than those who offer 20+8.

NHS Wales has altered its entitlement to 28+8.

My question is for anyone who knows the history behind NHS annual leave allowance as to why it's 27+8 and not 28+8.

I'm not complaining about anything!! Just interested

I've never worked anywhere with 28+8.

I get 25 +8 which is pretty common

I dont know if many offer 28 + 8
Some places may offer somewhere between 20 and 28 days as standard plus 8 bank holidays.

Leave in the NHS isn't that simple anyway. It depends on the length of service. So 27+8 is only for the first 5 years. 5-10 years service is 29+8 and 10 years+ service is 33+8.

I'm about to start an NHS job and my entitlement is 25 plus 8 bh.

I still don't really understand the question!!

You are writing as if organisations only have 2 choices - 28 days including bank holidays or 28 days plus bank holidays.

The reality is much more complex than that, and as long as they offer at least the statutory minimum (28 days inclusive of bank holidays), it's entirely up to them what they choose to offer on top of that. They will presumably determine this on the basis of what they can afford, staffing levels, industry norms etc.

My current employer offers 31 days plus bank holidays, ie 39 in total. My previous employer offered 44 days in total. My DH's last employer offered 25 days plus 8, so 33 in total.

For whatever reason, the NHS has gone for 27 plus 8. That is more than the statutory minimum and therefore entirely acceptable.

Oooooo I'm going back in my mind (bare in mind A4C negotiations started in 2004) and I think I have a memory that there was discrepancy between the professions ........ so for example a standard full time nursing week was 37.5hrs but AHPs were 36hrs.

I think something similar applied to leave to that some staff had 27 and some 28 and as part of the those on 28 days were paid off .......

It was a long time ago now so I may be remembering incorrectly

@Mangolist if you're working full time (37.5 hours) in NHS England and on agenda for change payscales you should be given 27+8 as per the T&C of service handbook. Other payscales exist though!

Actually maybe negotiations started in 2002 ....... its been a while since ive thought about it.

But in answer to the op qu it was all around eliminating the many discrepancies between different professions in the NHS ...... one was definitely pay and I think annual leave was another. I definitely remember having a phased increase in hours (I was on a 36hr FT contract)

@Lzzyisgod thank you! That's really all I wanted to know!

I don’t know the NHS specifics, but Agenda for change was the NHSs harmonisation of various terms & conditions.

The leave entitlement plus BHs will have preceded that (though there may have been changes to varying conditions for different grades etc

Each constituent country of the UK has its own NHS, which accounts for NHS Wales having a difference

Across the public sector is was normal to have x days leave plus BHs plus privilege days as far back as the 80s. The specifics varied between government sectors and also could have an entry level point with minimum leave plus annual increments up to a maximum
There can also be different terms depending on when someone was recruited and with the integration of different departments

In the MoD I have the maximum number of days leave due to the combination of my length of service and the contract I was employed under. Privilege days were removed from the civil service - the government wanted to remove 2.5days, but one of them is the sovereigns birthday which was granted by the queen and she prevented it’s removal.
For those recruited before the change and subject to a change of contract on promotion the 1.5 days were converted to annual leave.
I was promoted just before the cut off date, so I have 30 days normal leave, 1.5 supplemental, 1 privilege and bank holidays
If I go for promotion then I’ll lose 1.5 days

In my time I had to ‘earn’ the leave increments each year, then the new starter contract changed to maximum and later changed to minimum plus increments ……. But those terms changes were part of annual pay negations

Once you have worked in the NHS for 5 years you get an extra 2 days annual leave, so 29 days plus 8 Bank hols.

It may go up even more after 10 years but I'm not sure.

Just found this - the reason for 27 days was that prior to Agenda for Change NHS staff were entitled to 25 days plus bank holidays plus 2 'statutory' days - normally Maundy Thursday and Christmas Eve - this applied to the Civil Service as well.

When Agenda for Change came in they amalgamated the 2 statutory days into the ordinary annual leave days which could be taken anytime during the year.

NHS leave is generous - after 5 years it is 29+8, after 10 years 31+8 and after 15 years 33+8 - I know because my dcs both work for the NHS.

Agenda for Change does not apply to GP surgery staff because GP surgeries are considered independent contractors and they can set their own terms and conditions - normally a lot inferior to NHS terms and conditions.