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Original poster

Who owns the house?

34 replies

globetrotter2887 · 03/10/2022 18:11

Who owns the house???

Just looking for opinions on a legal/ property ownership matter. Have posted it on a legal advice forum too and solicitor advice is going to be sought from both parties in the coming weeks. Will try to make this post unbiased to get initial thoughts. Post purely out of curiosity, both parties have no solid legal knowledge.

Basically-

⁃	grandfather in late stages of dementia. In a care home which is financially taken care of from pension and doesn’t run out until he passes.
⁃	Recently been discovered that grandfather does not own the house as he signed it over to his son 10 years ago in secret. 
⁃	Son passed away 5 years ago. Nothing more was done with ownership of the house 
⁃	Son left 2 adult children and his surviving wife. 
⁃	Wife remarried 3 years ago. 
⁃	Wife has since discovered that her deceased husband owned the house and says the house will be hers as it was her husbands (even though she is remarried) and wants to seek solicitor advice to sell and take money. 
⁃	Children think that as they are the only living blood relatives and their mother has remarried the house is theirs.

What does everybody think?

OP posts:
Hearthnhome · 03/10/2022 18:14

I assume the home owner had no will?

YellowHpok · 03/10/2022 18:16

Sounds like it is the wife's given that she was still married to the deceased at the point of which it was inherited.

LIZS · 03/10/2022 18:16

Did son have a will? There is a limit on how much passes to a wife under intestacy , then dc.

Original poster
globetrotter2887 · 03/10/2022 18:17

Hearthnhome · 03/10/2022 18:14

I assume the home owner had no will?

Sorry forgot to mention this. Homeowner had a will but house was not included in it and included named assets only.

OP posts:
SageMist · 03/10/2022 18:17

Assuming no will and proof that the house was signed over, then the wife would be the beneficiary. I can't see how a later marriage would change that. Could be wrong though, definite need a solicitor.

Idontgiveagriffindamn · 03/10/2022 18:18

I believe it would follow intestate rules of the time. So it depends on the size of the sons estate.

fairlygoodmother · 03/10/2022 18:18

If there was no will the rules of intestacy would apply, the distribution would depend on the value of the estate, also what country the son lived in (Scotland has different laws from England and Wales).

Original poster
globetrotter2887 · 03/10/2022 18:20

Son lived in England. House is worth around £280k

OP posts:
fairlygoodmother · 03/10/2022 18:20

But if the grandfather ever needs his care costs met by the government it might count as deprivation of assets.

Cyw2018 · 03/10/2022 18:21

I would assume it belongs to the wife, her remarriage is totally irrelevant.

Cyw2018 · 03/10/2022 18:22

fairlygoodmother · 03/10/2022 18:20

But if the grandfather ever needs his care costs met by the government it might count as deprivation of assets.

I think the time limit for that is 7 years, so long past.

Spanielsarepainless · 03/10/2022 18:22

If he made a will leaving it the wife, the house is hers. If he didn't make a will, the rules of intestacy apply. Unless the house is phenomenally valuable, the wife will probably still get most of it under those rules.

ChilliBandit · 03/10/2022 18:24

The rules of intestacy at the time of the son’s death with apply. This is why people need to make and keep wills up to date.

womaninatightspot · 03/10/2022 18:24

Where was the house as different rules apply north/south of the border. Did he pay market rate as otherwise taxman might be after stamp duty at the applicable market rate of that time. What age were the children when their Father died, the younger they were the more they may have an expectation of support. Did they inherit anything from their father at the time?

Explaintome · 03/10/2022 18:24

I think as it should have gone to wife when son died, it's hers, assuming there's no will to the contrary.

Explaintome · 03/10/2022 18:27

This is a risk when you try to pull a fast one to avoid inheritance tax (or is there another reason it was gjevn to son?).

ChilliBandit · 03/10/2022 18:27

womaninatightspot · 03/10/2022 18:24

Where was the house as different rules apply north/south of the border. Did he pay market rate as otherwise taxman might be after stamp duty at the applicable market rate of that time. What age were the children when their Father died, the younger they were the more they may have an expectation of support. Did they inherit anything from their father at the time?

Not that it’s relevant to this thread, but whilst CGT could have been applicable at market rate. Stamp Duty won’t have been unless there was a mortgage. They don’t use market value for stamp duty, only actual proceeds or the value of any mortgage for the property.

Raddix · 03/10/2022 18:29

Firstly I would speak to a solicitor and question whether this transfer of the house was legitimate. There could be a case for it being fraudulent and coerced, especially as an elderly person with dementia was convinced to sign it over in secret to another individual.

Secondly the son should have been paying tax if he owned a house with a tenant in situ, even if the tenant wasn’t paying rent. The law has been broken, you may have to check if there’s a tax bill to be paid from the proceeds of the house.

Thirdly, check what the son’s will said. He may have willed it to someone or left “everything to my children” in which case the house would be theirs.

If everything is above board then the house was passed from father to son to wife. So the wife owns it.

MolliciousIntent · 03/10/2022 18:29

It belongs to the wife.

EL8888 · 03/10/2022 18:29

It’s belongs to the sons wife. Her re-marrying doesn’t change anything, lm amused by the children’s take on it being theirs

olderthanyouthink · 03/10/2022 18:35

We have similar in my family, grandad signed a house over to his children, one of them died, house now belongs partly to a non blood relative, if that person married the house could move fully out of the family otherwise it's back into the blood family with they die.

So messy, wish people would write wills and think things through more.

Shamoo · 03/10/2022 18:47

On what grounds do the children think it is theirs?!? Her remarrying after the death is clearly irrelevant if she was his wife when he died!

LIZS · 03/10/2022 18:49

They should go back to the solicitor who did the son's probate.

BadNomad · 03/10/2022 19:16

If the house wasn't mentioned specifically in the will then I imagine it is supposed to be sold and then the money distributed as per the will. I don't think the wife gets the house as it wasn't jointly owned. It just becomes part of the estate.

gogohmm · 03/10/2022 19:22

It's part of the estate of the son so whether it passes solely to the wife if not listed in the will will depend on where (Scotland has different rules to England for instance) and the size of the estate. Inheritance tax may be due if it is over a certain size too