Toddler with possible autism

[StudentNurse3]

Can anyone tell me how SWs can tell if the toddler's speech delay and motor delay is due to negligence or if it is autism?

There is autism and ADHD in the family. However the elder DC hasn't had any delays.

The SWs want to put a supervision order onto her/toddler. They are coming from the angle that it is negligence. But I don't know how they can difirentiate and I'm not sure this is fair.

Any information or advice much appreciated.

The way I would try to look at this is, your sister wants what's best for her youngest child, and so do you, and so do social services. The supervision order is a way of making sure that - because she is mentally unwell plus her DS has delays for whatever reason - her DS has a bigger more complete support network around him.

It's great that you and DH are supporting your sister and nephew, but that doesn't let SS out of the responsibility to make sure they're OK. What if you couldn't keep it up, what if your nephew's needs became more than you could manage, or your sister's condition became worse? Your sister can't care for him by herself. His father only does so much. The supervision order means that other people are there to help your nephew, and his mother.

You can still push the question of innate delays, autism, ADHD as well. It doesn't have to be either/or, autism or neglect due to your sister's illness. Both could be a factor.. And he can still be assessed for autism and ADHD in time, he's still quite young.

Already doing all that.

Yes, thank you, that is the way I look at it.

What is your sister’s stance?

Social workers are not paediatricians, they have no right or ability to diagnose one way or the other. It is really really important to press the court to order an independent developmental assessment by a Paediatrician.

The question then comes down to whether going forward mum can meet needs and what support is needed for that or if it's just not possible.

Sunshine support might be worth a contact

The Lorna Wing Centre (National Autistic Society) do complex assessments where there is a question of what may be autism and/or mental health difficulties.

Definitely ask for this to be moved to SEN or legal.

What jurisdiction are you in?

Some of the advice on this thread is wildly inaccurate.

You DSIS needs a solicitor and an independent advocate.

She should fight the court order but be open to working with support on a voluntary basis.

It should only become a legal order if voluntary support is ineffective or inappropriate.

You should go to all the meetings with her so you can understand the full context.

In these scenarios her beast chance is with a supportive health visitor. If the HV fully supports the view that delays are congenital and not environmental then that will hold much more weight than anyone else's opinion.

Bizzare
Looking on medical records a lot can also be viewed by 'interaction between mother and baby/toddler'

Well, she doesn't feel she's been giving her best recently, but equally she knows her DS's issues didn't only start in the last few months. Also that there are no issues with her eldest. She does get quite upset and feel she's been written off, but then other times she feels it's all her fault because she knows she hasn't been as on it with her youngest's difficulties recently.

Thank you for the advice.

Thank you

Ok, thank you.

My own DS was seen by CAMHs and they advised he had autistic traits but no co-morbidities.

Ok, thank you I will.

I'm not sure what you mean about jurisdiction?

She has a solicitor but not an advocate. Where could she get an advocate?

I'll see what is happening with the health visitor, thank you.

Sorry?

When you say things like a diagnosis will take "too long" - too long for what?

Well, the court case is next month. I'm not sure how long the supervision order would last, but I'm scared that he will be taken into care while awaiting a diagnosis. It takes about 2 years here.

If your family had the means to pay for private assessments, these would be quicker than waiting for NHS assessment.

I think some specific legal advice would be helpful, because there are several issues intertwining (as I understand it, I may have got it wrong):

Your DN has developmental delays, but the underlying cause/a of this have not yet been identified.

Your DN has not so far been assessed by a paediatrician, speech therapist, occupational therapist or other medical professional (is that right?)

Your sister has a severe MH condition, has suffered a bereavement, tried to end her own life, and was admitted as a MH inpatient

SS have been involved, and the SW believes your DN's delays are the result of your sister's MH illness and her perceived inability to interact with her son to help him develop.

(Has the SW not recommended a supported nursery place to help with interaction and language / motor development?)

There is a strong family history on both sides of DN's family of autism and ADHD.

Your sister may herself be undiagnosed autistic.

The reason its important to look at all these different factors is because they all feed into the questions:

What does DN need, specifically, to help him develop in line with his full potential? (Ie if he's autistic then he's working to his full autistic potential and that will be a different trajectory to a non-autistic).

Which of DN's specific needs can your sister meet herself with her existing support network, and which can she not?

Of your DN's needs which she cannot currently meet, are there any adaptations that would help her to meet them?

If yes, how will SS /network provide these adaptations?

If not, what alternative arrangements would meet DN's needs, and support your sister to reach a place where she could then meet his needs?

I am not trying to be pedantic by setting it all out but I hope other posters can see that determining the underlying cause/s of DN's needs are essential to getting them correctly met.

Yes, the underlying cause has not been assessed by a paediatrician. However, Children's services believe it to be neglect.

He has been seen by a physio therapist and has some aids to support him in learning to walk. I believe he is waiting to see a Speech therapist, although his mum and dad have found out some information themselves on how to encourage his speech.

My sister was not admitted as an inpatient, but has been diagnosed with affective depression by a psychiatrist. She takes medication and is awaiting therapy. This was to do with a bereavement. Therefore in all likelihood she will fully recover.

Yes, that is what the SW thinks. Yes, they did suggest nursery. I did try to encourage this, but at the time she was going to be moving and didn't want to start him somewhere only to move shortly afterwards. And this makes sense. However, she was very unwell then so maybe not able to see the bigger picture at the time. Thank you for reminding me. I will remind DSis of this and see if she will look at it now.

Yes, that is why I think they should consider the autism angle as of course it will change his needs if he is autistic.

Thank you for setting that out so clearly. It has helped me to understand it and to see what we need to look at in making sure DN's needs are met, if at all possible.

Jurisdiction = England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland

They have very different social work processes and laws.

Google advocacy services local to you.

Coventry scale helps explain.
something else going on op

she knows she hasn't been as on it with her youngest's difficulties recently.

how do?

Sorry if you covered but how did your sister come to the attention of SS in they first place?

Many many many of the children that are under childrens services watch will be ND. The majority I would go to far to say. But OP you seem to be of the opinion that this is all new to SS hence them thinking neglect rather than neurological issues

What is your end goal here OP?

For an autism diagnosis and for SS to back off and leave your sister to it?

surely the SW can diagnose neglect due to the parents behaviour
they can ask for a medical from a paediatrician
autism is another assessment altogether