Is it worth seeing a Solicitor or just leave it?

[Trampoline11]

Perhaps this should be in relationships. I'm not sure. I am just wondering if anyone can give me some advice on this situation.

My DM has talked about her will for many years. It's no secret that my brother and I are left everything (house and some savings) and a particular sum to my DC's. The will was drawn up (mirror wills) when my DF was alive and he died 4 years ago.

She has for some time said that she would like DB to have the house - or she has said that he asked if he can live in it. I've always said that of course he can. I don't want to live in it particularly although why a single man would want to maintain a four bedroom house seems daft to me. Each to his own.

Recently, she began a conversation about him having the house. She was also moaning about the money to my DC's that she 'has' to give. I said that was upsetting that she felt like that and she replied that she wasn't sure she agreed with DF's generosity. I said that it was her money now really but she didn't think she could change anything because of the mirror wills. I think this is really sad as I'm sure my father thought that his wishes would be honoured.

At the time I wish I had asked outright what it was she was trying to say but I didn't. I don't know if the conversation will come up again.

I've had a feeling over the past few years of being pushed out and feeling very confused about things. Her and DB have this insular world where they see each other all the time. Anything I offer to do - DB will do that. Ok, so I was just going to visit, did a few things in the house when she was ill recently. She rang me a few days ago and said she was fine, DB has done this and that etc and she would see me when she saw me. It was like she wasn't talking to a daughter.

Sorry that was so long - my question about seeing a solicitor is - I feel that DB is talking about these things, trying to change her mind about the will and it's not totally her decision. I feel I'm being shut out of her life a bit. She seems to be picking little arguments with me that when I was younger, I would react to but as a grown woman dealing with what I thought was DM, I wouldn't be so unkind. I'm starting to come to terms with the fact that the house will go to brother and there isn't anything I can do about it but is there? Legally I mean as if this does happen then I'm going to very hurt for a long time I think.

I don't know the answer to your question but r
Tbh I'd be more concerned about my mother being isolated and the effects of that on her wellbeing than about what happens to her money when she dies.

I am worried but I can't physically take her places she doesn't want to go. If I suggest anything - DB will do it. I can't force her to have me around.

If you feel,she is being manipulated, under duress and coerced into changing her Will you could raise it with her, her doctor or social services. If she has capacity and wants to alter her Will there is not much you can do, whats your relationship like with your brother. Do you and your children normally have quite a good relationship with her. Maybe in their minds everything should be split 50.50 but if your dc get a lump sum then your brother gets the house. There may not be any inheritance anyway if she needs care in the future. I would ask her if she is ok, is there a reason she doesnt want to see you and then let them get on with it. Dont mention the Will again, if you or your dc are left anything then treat yourselves, if not then its no loss because you never had it in the first place but i agree it doesnt seem to honour your dad.

Assuming that your DM has capacity then it's up to her who she leaves her estate to.

Working on rekindling your relationship with her rather than thinking of your inheritance.

How old is she op? How vulnerable? If you think she’s being co erced you need to speak to her doctor to see if she is of sound mind.

@HappyHamsters Not that sinister, just influenced? My relationship with my brother has always been ok. I don't feel comfortable bringing this up with him now as it all seems strange. If there isn't anything I can do then that's fine, I'll continue to go and see her (when she lets me) and act as I normally would. I would like my DC's to have their GF's gift though.

@NotDavidTennant There shouldn't have to be any rekindling. There hasn't been a breakdown in the relationship which is why I'm so surprised at her keeping me away. People always think it's about money but it isn't always that I promise you.

@Fushiadreams She's 85. I think she's very vulnerable tbh. If I list some of the things she's said and done - do you think her mental health is declining? She saw my son last week and thought he was my age. She has prepared the Sunday vegetables on Saturday. She has said that DB's friends have excluded him from their walking group since one of them has come home from Uni on holidays - they're retired! I'm sure I could think of more. She refused to see a doctor when she was ill a few weeks ago.

If you think her behaviour has changed and shes a bit muddled you could let her g.p know. What was she ill with recently. How does she manage day to day looking after herself.

It has changed recently but she has been a bit muddled for the past few years. She talks about her money a lot. More than I consider normal anyway. I did speak to the gp as I was asking for antibiotics for a UTI. When she was really ill DB and I helped out him am, me pm but now she's feeling better she's asked that I don't call and she'll see me when she sees me.

I think she feels that as the oldest male, he is entitled to everything and I know that in mumsnet world I am not entitled to anything etc. Believe me, this is a huge thing for her to be considering - changing her will. I am probably not coming across very well here but I know something is not right. Brother's behaviour was really weird when my uncle died. I won't waffle on about it but don't mind telling you if you want to know. Brother looks after bills etc on her behalf. He has her card. This makes sense to me as he's not spending it on anything other than her - I'm sure of that as I can be. He won't sign the POA forms though.

If there isn't anything I can do, then I won't. The chemist, gp, some family members, some friends know that her behaviour isn't what it was so that may help. In hindsight, this may be more of a relationship issue as I just can't rid myself of the feeling that some sort of games are being played.

Thanks to everyone who offered support. Not sure if I can get this deleted but I'll try. I was just talking to DM and any solicitor who thinks she is of sound mind needs to be struck off. I shall look after her as much as she will allow but won't think about anything else now.

Call her g.p and Express your concerns, she may have an infection or be mentally declining, they can assess her mental and capacity state. You can also try her local social services safeguarding team or AgeUK for advice. She may need a home assessment for her own safety. This might also be the time to consider power of attorney or deputyship if you can, do you have keys to her house. If you want to delete this thread you click on the bottom 3 dots but there is a lot of knowledge here on the elderly board.

DB won't sign his part of the POA. I think there is still something odd going on with them but that would be more an emotional issue about being hurt etc. I do appreciate the advice about contacting people. It's whether she would allow it. I could talk to brother and tell him that I don't think she's safe on her own for so long.

I'm going to put the emotional and legal things to one side and get practical. No easy task when she doesn't want me to but I'm sure the gp would ring her and not tell her that I had asked him to. I hope so anyway.

If she has lost mental capacity then its too late for dor poa anyway which is another reason to get an assessment, our surgery have a community elderly team with a gp, nurses, therapists , hers may have something similar.

If you ask for this thread to be moved to the elderly parents section you will get a lot of advice and support

Thanks HappyHamsters. At the moment it's only me and my DS who think that there is anything wrong. She's hiding it as she's not seeing anybody. Just because I say that her mental health is declining, doesn't mean that it is if that makes sense. She's really reluctant to get any outside help - even mine it would seem. Anyway, thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it.

The key to keeping the wills as they were is quickly getting her seen by a Dr and getting your concerns documented. this could prove vital that she is not of sound mind in the future if there is a dispute

id be very concerned that they haven’t already been changed though - looks to me like they know and have discussed it reduces your chances of a successful challenge to the will if you especially were not involved in her care, and it’s odd how she has started nitpicking at you

seriously all these people saying you shouldn’t be concerned about your inheritance are clearly not expecting one themselves!

I really hope the house is not worth a lot? Seems like it’s not going to you hence why you need to ask if there has been a new will that you don’t know about?!

Thanks @Quitelikeit. I'm not sure how to get her to see a doctor when she won't agree to it? I have difficulty imagining that they have visited a solicitor without telling me. They may have as her behaviour towards me is really strange. It all just seems so unbelievable to me that this would be an issue.

They must be able to see how hurtful this would be to me? House is worth £450 at a guess. I have been told that if there was a clause in the will stating that it is 'mutually binding and cannot be revoked upon the death of one of them' but that this is usually used where blended families are in the mix. Not sure he would have seen the need for that.

I agree with you about people saying I shouldn't be concerned about inheritance - why wouldn't I be? There are only two of us and my DF thought we should be treated equally. One 'conversation' we had, she mentioned that DB's house would have to be sold obviously. I don't know why she is trying to control things like this. Maybe they are going to placate me with the proceeds of his house? Who knows. Financially, I can live with that, it's just the feeling of dishonestly surrounding this and the dripping of information.

You can download a copy of your fathers will

From what you've said about blended family, it sounds as though your dad might have given her a life interest in his half of the house (assuming it was in joint names). In which case, she can change her own Will but can't alter what happens to your dad's share after she dies.

The other possibility (if she really isn't able to alter her Will) is that your parents made 'mutual Wills' (which the survivor can't alter after the first death), but these are unusual and most solicitors advise against them.

As for a solicitor who believes she has capacity being struck off - solicitors are legally obliged to assume someone has capacity to change their Will unless it can be established that they don't. The legal test for capacity to make a Will is quite specific and the bar isn't that high.

Only if a grant of probate was taken out for it. If it wasn't, then you can't.

Final thought - if you have genuine concerns about your mother being manipulated or abused, contact social services.

Even if you are correct, and she is being persuaded to change her will, the legal test for lack of capacity is a lot stronger than "does the Sunday veg on Saturday". You (or your solicitor) would need to be able to show more than her being influenced (because in law there is nothing wrong with that), but that she was incapable of understanding any change in her will and the consequences that would have. "Consequences" obviously doesn't mean "things you don't like or aren't in your interests" - it is about her knowing that if she were to leave the bulk of her estate to your brother, you would get little or nothing. That's a pretty low bar.

If she has capacity, and you take this action (assuming there is anything you can do about it anyway) then you can reasonably expect that you won't see a penny of the inheritance anyway. I doubt that opening this door will be seen positively by her.

So isn't this a case of "devil you do, devil you don't"? Whatever you do could lead to the exact same outcome. I think you settle back, and operate on the basis that nobody is entitled to anything. Don't plan on you or your DC getting anything. Then if your fears aren't realised, it'll be a pleasant surprise.

@Jalisco Thanks so much for your reply. It isn't a road I want to go down. I think she's just being influenced, nothing sinister and by the sound of it is talking to me hoping that I will agree that he should have the house so that she doesn't have to actually say it. I just wish we could have a proper conversation tbh. Maybe we will sometime soon.

This has been really helpful knowing the legal side of things. The feelings I have of being lied to/games being played to are another issue which is on me!

Due to the advice on here, I intend to say nothing more about it unless it's brought up by DM, continue to just do normal daughter things - whatever she'll allow - and hope that it goes as DF wanted.

Thanks again