8 years later and wants contact

[Pandamum83]

I had my 1st DD in 2012. Split with her dad in early 2015 after he was cheating. He has had nothing to do with my daughter since apart from paying £14 a month maintenance money. He tried to make contact a couple of years ago but he was rejected for legal aid and did not continue to pursue the matter. My daughter is coming up for 10 and does not want to see him as she has no idea who he is etc.

We live in scotland and I have recently received a court order that states he wants residential contact every 2nd weekend and half the holidays. He lives about an hours drive away and is expecting me to do all the running about. I have found a solicitor to help me with the case.

What is the liklihood of this 'nonsense' being granted after so long. I do not think I will be entitled to legal aid and I am concerned at how much this will end up costing, obviously will have a detrimental finacial affect on both of us and long term my DD will ultimately loose out.

I feel my ex is being extremely selfish asking for this now. She is at a pivotal point in her development and this is severely affecting her mental health.

Has anyone been in a similar situation. Have the taken the views of the kid into consideration at 10 years old? How long do battles like this generally go on for and do the courts feel strongly about biological family involvement even after so long?

In my experience, the court really does not care if the ex was abusive to you.

That's what I feel too tbh. He was fine to her so why bring all that up. I don't want them thinking am stopping contact because of my bad feelings and hurt caused by him. I just can't believe that after all these years he decides to make an appearance.

Did you need to go to court for mediation ro be suggested?? He hasn't even tried for this. Just straight in to 3 hours per week for a month then onto residential weekends and half the holidays. He also works weekends etc, how does this work if he is working on a weekend or during the holidays that he wants her for..... do the courts see it reasonable for her to then be left with his new wife rather than him?

What a bloody mess all this is. And on the writ, he expects me to do all the driving about and pay for his court fees too 😔

Your initial post did not come across like this at all. I think if you had posted this initially then you would have had more helpful and understanding responses.

I think @AQuietWalk has given good advice especially about reducing costs and limiting the upset for your DD. Good luck 💐

I’d get a solicitor and declare you’re still suffering the fallout financially from his financial abuse and therefore are not able to pay for his legal fees. And put in that he pays yours.

in England legal fees for child proceedings is paid by each person who incurs the fees. My solicitor told me costa were rarely awarded.

in your shoes I’d definitely get legal advice.

I am surprised that he has gone straight to lodging his writ in court and not been advised to try mediation.
your solicitor has probably advised you already that you need to lodge defences within a certain time to contest what he is asking for (21 days I think).
to me, it would seem reasonable to offer an afternoon every other weekend with a view to building up EOW residential contact, BUT not every weekend as then DD does not get a full weekend with you and it is not in the eventual pattern he said he wants (if I read correctly) and Not going straight from 3 hours to a full weekend as that is not a gradual adjustment. You could say that you want to mediate to discuss how contact can be extended in a more gradual manner to be manageable for DD. The courts take the view that it is best for parents to agree matters themselves and may then refer you to mediation in advance of a child welfare hearing (this was not appropriate in our case as there were issues the court needed to take a view on, and I wanted that to happen); if it goes to a child welfare hearing, the Sheriff will probably make an interim order for the three hours (or more, ex got an hour more than I said DC would manage, but not what ex was asking for). Once you are referred to mediation, you can then agree by a minute of agreement in advance of any further court hearing. At least that is my understanding based on my experience.
in your defences, you do need to lay out the fact that dad has had no contact for eight years and therefore a period of adjustment for DD is necessary.
if it is any consolation, ex asked for EOW and half the holidays. That has never to this day happened although contact has increased gradually.
I had to pay my own costs, although we at various points threatened to seek costs when ex was spinning things out, in practice, I don’t think you can do this for the court expenses.

• we being my side of proceedings

Sorry, my point about court costs relates specifically to child welfare cases, but your lawyer can best advise.
you also asked whether we had been to mediation already - yes, we had extensively mediated and this had not reached a solution. There were some complexities I won’t go into on here. The court hearings put some parameters in place and we were referred back to mediation. We had co-mediation (two mediators in the room and a break-out room) for the court ordered mediation, and while it was stressful, it worked to allow us both space to put our views and take a break when it got heated. The first set of mediation was not as good.

Where are you in Scotland, OP?

I know some mediation organisations in Edinburgh.

You could also try posting in Scotsnet as you might get more appropriate responses there (rather than lots of replies based on the English system/cafcass etc)

With the likes of mediation tho, how does that actually work. Is it him airing his views and me replying or what happens during mediation??

The aim of mediation is for the two of you to work out a plan in the best interests of your child with someone who understands the law, how the courts are likely to see it etc so they can reality check any unrealistic expectations. For example, my understanding is that moving quickly to overnight would be unrealistic in the circumstances. The aim would to consider not just now but the longer term as your daughter grows up.

Some mediators are qualified to talk to children about their wishes and act as advocate for them. It’s not ideal, they aren’t really the best people (Iceland, for instance, uses child psychologists) but it does give children a voice and can, in my experience, be helpful to all parties as it focuses the discussion on what the child wants rather than either of you. In England you can’t go to court without exploring mediation as an option and there is legal aid for it. Surprised it’s different in Scotland.

I think you're lying to yourself.

Of course your 8 year old daughter wants to have a dad. She's saying she has no interest because she knows that's what makes you happy. Let them have contact.

You are not her only parent.

For the court ordered mediation, we both had to fill in a form with a series of questions designed to allow us to express what our views were. Then we had an individual meeting each where the mediators talked to each of us separately about our position and particular issues. Then we had a joint session where we found out the points the other person had raised (these were on a flip chart and not a surprise as had already been aired in court) and then the mediators went through each of these, allowing the person who had raised the point to lead and making further notes on the flip chart. So it was not ex talked, I respond, it was quite mixed. I did find that having two mediators in the room helped reign him in, and also stopped the gaslighting because they were able to remind him what had already been discussed.

the aim was to work out what we agreed on and then get to a point of agreement on other things. It allowed for a much freer discussion of how to make things work, not just him saying what he wanted, and also I could say why things might not work without changing x, y or z. I did also consult a child paychologist and take her recommendations into one of the meetings, as ex did not want to pay for that formally, but he was willing to engage with what she said. Where we agreed to extend the interim order, eg by extending the day time contact, or adding days in the holidays, this was sent in writing by the mediators to our respective solicitors.

The process has had its limits - its basically intended to force a convergence between what Dc could manage and ex wanted, and he was not willing to agree to a final order which did not involve overnights, but at the same time, he agreed with me in the end that we could not force this and it would be detrimental to DC (for which I am grateful!). In practice, then, we did get to a solution which works for DC. Ex was also not willing to take matters to proof either in the absence of this final agreement (thank God as that would have been ruinous financially), so the case was sisted, which means in effect closed, but you still have this hanging over you that it could be opened again. He has suggested recently having a minute of agreement drawn up, but I am out of money and I don’t see the point after all these years, it’s just more money for the lawyers at this point, when things work in practice. I don’t know if that part of the process has changed - that you can in effect be left with an interim order and no final resolution.

It’s not a nice situation to have to navigate, but I did find the court-ordered mediation useful in getting to a practical solution. I am happy to PM you the names of the mediators if you want. The first set of mediation we had was a complete waste of money, so I do think having competent and experienced mediators makes a difference.

Are you in the UK? I was under the impression a court will not entertain you until you have tried meditation first.

At the age of 10 the court will take the child’s choice way more seriously. You could easily delay until then.

Im sorry, but 8 year no contact and now a court order? He’s just looking for a fight and a bit of control. If I’m wrong, go to mediation and see if there’s a way forward but my first instinct would be there is no way I’d let him see my child.

and no court is going to give him all that time to begin with anyway, by the time they might allow that your daughter will have a day anyway.

Say not day

This thread is 5 months old. The case is likely to be over now.

OP says she is in Scotland. The law in Scotland is different from the law in England. However, mediation is not compulsory in England. All the parent applying for the order must do is attend a mediation information and assessment meeting (MIAM). They do not have to attempt mediation.

I had to do mediation before I could go to court.

I didn’t
there are exceptions and rightly so